Red

Hello, and welcome to Tisha Talks Switches. 2 00:00:08,063 --> 00:00:13,773 I'm Erez from ZSA, and with me here today is Tisha, our resident switch expert and support lead. 3 00:00:14,083 --> 00:00:14,983 How's it going, Tisha? 4 00:00:15,443 --> 00:00:15,933 Tisha: Hi. 5 00:00:16,273 --> 00:00:17,183 Uh, it's going well. 6 00:00:17,183 --> 00:00:17,713 How are you? 7 00:00:18,203 --> 00:00:18,765 Erez: I'm good, I'm good. 8 00:00:18,765 --> 00:00:19,143 Tisha: Good. 9 00:00:19,693 --> 00:00:25,843 Erez: I think, uh, we just, uh, heard before we starting recording, with us here today are also Tisha's neighbor's dogs, right? 10 00:00:26,333 --> 00:00:27,013 Tisha: [laughs] Yeah. 11 00:00:27,686 --> 00:00:32,656 The weather today is very warm, and so the neighbor's small dogs are outside. 12 00:00:32,770 --> 00:00:37,080 And they, uh, can be noisy for long periods of time. 13 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:37,680 [laughs] 14 00:00:37,980 --> 00:00:41,960 Erez: Yeah, so if you hear the dogs on today's podcast, hi neighbor dogs. 15 00:00:42,340 --> 00:00:42,520 Tisha: Yeah. 16 00:00:43,420 --> 00:00:46,680 Erez: Uh, on today's not-a-podcast I should say, on today's episode really. 17 00:00:46,710 --> 00:00:47,660 Tisha: [laughs] Right. 18 00:00:47,990 --> 00:00:51,460 Erez: So today we're gonna talk about reds, right? 19 00:00:51,750 --> 00:00:53,125 Tisha: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 20 00:00:53,140 --> 00:00:53,920 Erez: Those are linear. 21 00:00:54,260 --> 00:00:55,910 Tisha: Yes, linear switches. 22 00:00:56,210 --> 00:00:58,670 Erez: I think this is really our first linear episode, right? 23 00:00:58,670 --> 00:01:00,280 Because we've done Brown which is tactile. 24 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:01,800 We've done Blue which is clicky. 25 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:02,290 Tisha: Right. 26 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:03,590 Erez: So, now it's linear's turn. 27 00:01:04,670 --> 00:01:05,530 Tisha: Right, yeah. 28 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:12,890 Um, so linear switches just, it means that there, there's no click, there's no tactile bump. 29 00:01:13,320 --> 00:01:19,210 When you press the switch down, it's smooth and it feels the same until you hit bottom. 30 00:01:19,496 --> 00:01:19,826 Erez: Right. 31 00:01:20,130 --> 00:01:24,565 That sounds like a more boring typing experience- [laughs] 32 00:01:24,710 --> 00:01:24,750 Tisha: [laughs] 33 00:01:24,750 --> 00:01:29,960 ... Erez: than, uh, than something, uh, certainly clicky but also tactile with that bump in the middle. 34 00:01:29,960 --> 00:01:34,953 Would you say linear switches are, I don't know, more monotonous to work with? 35 00:01:34,953 --> 00:01:37,533 Tisha: Depending on who you are, sure. 36 00:01:37,573 --> 00:01:45,843 There are a lot of people who prefer to have the tactile and/or auditory feedback from a clicky or a tactile switch. 37 00:01:46,163 --> 00:01:51,116 But there also are a lot of people who prefer that smooth typing feeling. 38 00:01:51,156 --> 00:02:05,675 It's closer to, you know, if you're accustomed to typing on your standard, regular old like, you know, the keyboard that came with the computer that you bought or, to a certain degree, the keyboard on your laptop, stuff like that. 39 00:02:05,745 --> 00:02:07,885 They don't really have anything but just down and up. 40 00:02:08,785 --> 00:02:09,955 Erez: Right, right. 41 00:02:10,395 --> 00:02:16,775 Although when people ask about laptop keyboards, I always say, especially with linear switches... 42 00:02:16,785 --> 00:02:20,105 Linear switches, it's like all they've got is just travel. 43 00:02:20,605 --> 00:02:20,635 Tisha: Right. 44 00:02:20,645 --> 00:02:29,778 Erez: You hit the switch and it keeps going down, down, down, down, down, down until it bottoms out way more so than a laptop keyboard, right? 45 00:02:29,778 --> 00:02:31,068 Tisha: Y- yeah, totally. 46 00:02:31,078 --> 00:02:43,082 So, that's, um, I guess that's why I said that's, it's not a super similar [laughs] experience but the similar part is that you've got just the up and down. 47 00:02:43,832 --> 00:02:45,002 Otherwise, they're not all that similar. 48 00:02:45,002 --> 00:02:47,832 Yeah, because the, the mechanical keyswitches are a lot deeper. 49 00:02:48,042 --> 00:02:51,392 You have a lot further to press before it stops. 50 00:02:51,802 --> 00:02:53,082 Erez: Right, right. 51 00:02:53,662 --> 00:03:03,262 Okay, so I guess the other thing that maybe makes this episode different is that we're gonna talk about three different red switches- 52 00:03:03,502 --> 00:03:03,967 Tisha: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 53 00:03:04,202 --> 00:03:11,532 ... Erez: but we really only offer one of those for the Moonlander and the ErgoDox EZ Glow and the Planck EZ Glow, right? 54 00:03:11,942 --> 00:03:12,742 Tisha: Right. 55 00:03:12,992 --> 00:03:23,587 Um, we have three red switches, one of which is RGB compatible, you know, meaning that it will let the light from the, uh, from the back lighting shine through. 56 00:03:23,607 --> 00:03:24,527 The other two are not. 57 00:03:24,718 --> 00:03:26,548 Erez: At least the way we carry them now, right? 58 00:03:26,548 --> 00:03:31,278 I mean we might, you know, by the time you're listening to this, maybe we do have them. 59 00:03:31,278 --> 00:03:34,298 But for now we don't have them for RGB boards. 60 00:03:34,878 --> 00:03:35,518 Tisha: Right. 61 00:03:35,578 --> 00:03:38,808 The non-RGB switches are made by Cherry. 62 00:03:39,428 --> 00:03:43,768 And Cherry makes RGB versions of each of these. 63 00:03:44,298 --> 00:03:45,528 We don't carry them. 64 00:03:46,298 --> 00:03:49,628 And, an- and, you know, I'll talk about this more when we get to it. 65 00:03:49,758 --> 00:03:56,518 Um, one of them is I think pretty easy to find and one of them is a little less easy to find in the RGB version. 66 00:03:57,408 --> 00:03:58,235 Erez: Mm-hmm [affirmative], mm-hmm [affirmative]. 67 00:03:58,378 --> 00:03:59,448 Well, let's talk about them then. 68 00:03:59,518 --> 00:03:59,818 So- 69 00:03:59,828 --> 00:04:00,138 Tisha: Okay, sure. 70 00:04:00,178 --> 00:04:03,748 ... Erez: should we start with, with the granddaddy, with the Cherry MX Red? 71 00:04:04,828 --> 00:04:05,578 Tisha: Sure, yeah. 72 00:04:05,618 --> 00:04:08,878 And this, this is one that m-, probably a lot of people have heard of. 73 00:04:09,154 --> 00:04:09,847 Erez: Mm-hmm [affirmative] 74 00:04:09,847 --> 00:04:17,801 Tisha: So far we've talked about, uh, Cherry MX Brown and Cherry MX Blue, so this is made by the same manufacturer. 75 00:04:18,671 --> 00:04:20,031 It's been around a long time. 76 00:04:21,271 --> 00:04:24,021 It is, um, I think... 77 00:04:24,641 --> 00:04:26,741 Well, uh, maybe this is just an assumption. 78 00:04:27,461 --> 00:04:36,631 [laughs] But I think when people think of, your default linear switch, probably a lot of people think of Cherry MX Red. 79 00:04:36,868 --> 00:04:37,788 Erez: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 80 00:04:38,428 --> 00:04:38,468 How do... 81 00:04:38,798 --> 00:04:45,628 You mean people who have tried MX Red before, or just the notion of a linear switch? 82 00:04:46,088 --> 00:04:48,888 Tisha: I think maybe just the notion of a linear switch. 83 00:04:48,898 --> 00:04:53,258 You mentioned that MX Red maybe is the granddaddy of the linear switches. 84 00:04:53,258 --> 00:05:01,478 And Cherry is kind of the granddaddy of the mechanical, keyswitch manufacturing world [laughs] I guess, you know. 85 00:05:01,628 --> 00:05:06,275 They're the big name, and this is their, this is their well-known linear switch. 86 00:05:06,505 --> 00:05:06,815 Erez: Right. 87 00:05:07,298 --> 00:05:12,678 So then would you say, generally speaking, is this the, the "when in doubt" linear switch? 88 00:05:12,678 --> 00:05:19,325 Meaning like let's say I know I want linear, MX Red is kind of a safe bet if it's available for my keyboard? 89 00:05:19,675 --> 00:05:20,105 Tisha: Right. 90 00:05:20,105 --> 00:05:21,355 Yeah, I would say so. 91 00:05:21,525 --> 00:05:33,405 It's well known and popular and, [laughs] I guess for lack of a better, um, way to say it, there's nothing like weird or unusual about it. 92 00:05:33,415 --> 00:05:36,545 There's not r-, there aren't really any gotchas about it. 93 00:05:36,769 --> 00:05:37,399 Erez: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 94 00:05:37,619 --> 00:05:38,389 I don't know, I don't know. 95 00:05:38,389 --> 00:05:41,759 Like I'm actually, I think on linear switches right now, I'm typing on the Kailh Silver. 96 00:05:41,759 --> 00:05:41,952 Tisha: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 97 00:05:42,049 --> 00:05:46,189 Erez: But the way we talk about these makes them sound so boring to me. 98 00:05:46,189 --> 00:05:48,891 Like, "Oh, there's nothing unusual about the MX Red. 99 00:05:48,891 --> 00:05:49,024 It- 100 00:05:49,024 --> 00:05:49,156 Tisha: [laughs] 101 00:05:49,289 --> 00:05:52,509 ... Erez: it's just it goes down all the way and then it goes back up. 102 00:05:52,509 --> 00:05:52,679 And it's- 103 00:05:52,779 --> 00:05:53,029 Tisha: Right. 104 00:05:53,069 --> 00:05:53,329 ... Erez: smooth." 105 00:05:53,639 --> 00:05:58,119 Like, uh, yeah, I gue-, I guess not all switches have to be exciting, right? 106 00:05:58,739 --> 00:05:58,819 I mean- [laughs] 107 00:05:58,819 --> 00:06:00,669 Tisha: [laughs] Yeah, that's true. 108 00:06:00,759 --> 00:06:02,309 Erez: It's kind of a workhorse. 109 00:06:03,019 --> 00:06:03,399 Tisha: It is. 110 00:06:03,409 --> 00:06:16,399 It's not, I guess it's not exciting but it is, um, but a lot of people find them just very, you know, comfortable, um, easy to use for long periods of time. 111 00:06:16,399 --> 00:06:27,289 You're sitting there for eight or 10 hours just typing away intensively, um, these switches tend to be, uh, you know, pretty easy on your fingers. 112 00:06:27,799 --> 00:06:29,929 And they can be a little easier on your ears too. 113 00:06:30,289 --> 00:06:30,499 Erez: Okay. 114 00:06:30,969 --> 00:06:34,399 That's actually an interesting segue for the next one, right? 115 00:06:34,669 --> 00:06:38,259 Easy on your ears, which is the Silent Red. 116 00:06:38,709 --> 00:06:39,289 Tisha: Right. 117 00:06:39,554 --> 00:06:48,494 I'll back up just a little bit, and both the Cherry MX Red and the Cherry MX Silent Red are moderately lightweight. 118 00:06:48,504 --> 00:06:53,584 Like that, [laughs] that wishy-washy light/medium weight. 119 00:06:53,914 --> 00:06:56,477 So, they're easy to type on. 120 00:06:56,907 --> 00:06:58,657 They don't offer a lot of resistance. 121 00:06:58,657 --> 00:07:00,417 They don't really push back at you a lot. 122 00:07:00,417 --> 00:07:05,947 So, most people are going to find that, that they're easy to type on for long periods of time. 123 00:07:05,947 --> 00:07:11,357 They're not fatiguing, but they're not so light that it's like typing on nothing. 124 00:07:11,464 --> 00:07:22,824 Erez: My test and what I always ask about these lighter switches, can I or can like, would you say a, an average person, if there is such a thing, rest their fingers on the board while thinking? 125 00:07:23,344 --> 00:07:23,654 Tisha: Oh, right. 126 00:07:23,924 --> 00:07:25,804 Erez: Or will I get characters on the screen? 127 00:07:25,804 --> 00:07:26,384 What do you think? 128 00:07:26,424 --> 00:07:26,704 Tisha: Right. 129 00:07:27,054 --> 00:07:35,164 Um, I would say with the red switches, most people will not get characters on their screen if they rest their fingers on the keys. 130 00:07:35,494 --> 00:07:42,094 They're not so light or so easy to, to actuate that it's easy to get accidental key presses. 131 00:07:42,174 --> 00:07:43,504 You can put your fingers on them. 132 00:07:43,894 --> 00:07:49,094 You can probably wiggle your fingers around a little bit on the keys without, without anything happening. 133 00:07:49,505 --> 00:07:49,875 Erez: Cool. 134 00:07:50,415 --> 00:07:50,925 Okay. 135 00:07:51,775 --> 00:07:54,395 So then, so those, those are the reds. 136 00:07:54,395 --> 00:07:56,865 And then we kind of touched on the silents as well. 137 00:07:57,785 --> 00:07:58,215 Tisha: Right. 138 00:07:58,335 --> 00:08:06,865 So, linear switches in general, because there's no click and because there's no tactile bump, uh, tend to be a bit quieter. 139 00:08:07,435 --> 00:08:16,539 They're, if you think of switches in three big families, linear, tactile and clicky, the linear is the, tends to be the quietest family. 140 00:08:17,269 --> 00:08:17,714 Erez: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 141 00:08:17,819 --> 00:08:32,449 Tisha: Taking that I guess a step further, you've got silenced switches like the Cherry MX Silent Red which has, built in stuff [laughs] in the switch to make it even quieter. 142 00:08:32,599 --> 00:08:33,849 It's really quiet. 143 00:08:34,075 --> 00:08:34,545 Erez: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 144 00:08:34,792 --> 00:08:42,332 Tisha: I compare it to I think a, um, just a normal laptop keyboard. 145 00:08:42,534 --> 00:08:47,464 It's probably just a touch louder than that, but not a lot. 146 00:08:47,838 --> 00:09:02,104 Compared to your, standard, you know, your $15 from Best Buy office keyboard, [laughs] um, it is probably at least as quiet as that. 147 00:09:02,441 --> 00:09:02,971 Erez: Right. 148 00:09:03,594 --> 00:09:14,964 Though in, in a previous episode we did kind of touch on the notion of when you're typing it's not just a switch you're really hearing, right? 149 00:09:14,974 --> 00:09:18,744 There's a lot of plastic on plastic and bottoming out and stuff like that, right? 150 00:09:18,994 --> 00:09:19,894 Tisha: True, yeah. 151 00:09:20,664 --> 00:09:27,238 Erez: So, would you say that Silent Red, by itself, does it make a significant difference? 152 00:09:27,238 --> 00:09:39,618 Like if, if, you know, we have 100% of the audio output of, you know, energetic typing, and then you take out the, the key switch sound let's say, because your key switch is perfectly silent- 153 00:09:39,968 --> 00:09:40,864 Tisha: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 154 00:09:40,864 --> 00:09:42,518 ... Erez: how much of that is still left? 155 00:09:42,578 --> 00:09:47,508 Like, uh, am I truly quiet enough for a call now, for example? 156 00:09:47,508 --> 00:09:51,728 Or would I need to type softly in a call? 157 00:09:52,278 --> 00:09:52,698 Tisha: Right. 158 00:09:52,748 --> 00:09:56,772 I mean of course it's going to vary somewhat, with the individual. 159 00:09:57,422 --> 00:10:00,742 But the nature of, uh... 160 00:10:01,462 --> 00:10:11,836 the sound from bottoming out is one of the things specifically mitigated [laughs] in silenced switches like the Cherry MX Silent Red. 161 00:10:12,156 --> 00:10:12,166 Erez: Mmm. 162 00:10:12,346 --> 00:10:23,566 Tisha: So, you get much, much less, I, you know, I would say as, as an aggressive typist myself, you get quite a lot less thwock, thwock, thwock from bottoming out. 163 00:10:24,316 --> 00:10:24,386 Erez: Mmm. 164 00:10:24,416 --> 00:10:30,056 Tisha: Um, you get, I'm trying to come up with an appropriate onomatopoeia. 165 00:10:30,076 --> 00:10:30,116 [laughs] 166 00:10:30,116 --> 00:10:30,976 Erez: [laughs] 167 00:10:31,836 --> 00:10:34,436 Tisha: And it, I'm, i-, uh, I'm not getting there. 168 00:10:34,456 --> 00:10:49,319 But it's not thwocky, it's more tappy but not as high-pitched as you might think of tap sounding. 169 00:10:50,216 --> 00:10:53,962 Erez: For some reason, raindrops come to mind. 170 00:10:54,109 --> 00:10:59,222 I'm not talking about a full-on summer storm but like raindrops hitting a car roof. 171 00:10:59,222 --> 00:11:00,057 [laughs] Is that weird? 172 00:11:00,207 --> 00:11:02,637 Tisha: [laughs] Um, I know what you mean. 173 00:11:02,727 --> 00:11:04,877 Right, like soft rain. 174 00:11:05,117 --> 00:11:12,597 Not, [laughs] not an old, uh, very metal-rich car. 175 00:11:12,607 --> 00:11:14,840 [laughs] But yeah. 176 00:11:15,390 --> 00:11:18,060 Erez: One of the plastic things we're driving around these days. 177 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:19,860 Tisha: Ri- [laughs] right, exactly. 178 00:11:20,250 --> 00:11:20,435 Erez: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 179 00:11:20,527 --> 00:11:29,727 Tisha: Yeah, the quality of the sound is also, i- is also quite different as well as the, uh, amount of sound, the volume. 180 00:11:30,557 --> 00:11:32,297 Erez: So, it feels different to bottom out. 181 00:11:32,307 --> 00:11:38,517 So, like you're saying it, it mitigates the noise but, obviously, to mitigate the noise you got to mitigate the actual bottoming out, right? 182 00:11:38,517 --> 00:11:40,317 So, it's like it's cushioned? 183 00:11:40,897 --> 00:11:41,567 Tisha: Right, yeah. 184 00:11:41,567 --> 00:11:45,177 It does feel, um, it does feel cushioned. 185 00:11:45,345 --> 00:11:49,405 The impact is, is softer feeling when you bottom out. 186 00:11:49,405 --> 00:11:52,697 You don't really feel that plastic-on-plastic impact. 187 00:11:53,487 --> 00:11:57,054 You feel, more like you're hitting something a bit softer. 188 00:11:57,184 --> 00:12:08,244 It's not squishy like you might think of, um, if you think of a really awful, cheap [laughs] keyboard and you get that kinda squishy feeling when you press the keys all the way down. 189 00:12:08,504 --> 00:12:09,674 It's not squishy like that. 190 00:12:10,181 --> 00:12:14,801 It's just not, the impact is just not so sharp feeling. 191 00:12:15,581 --> 00:12:16,101 Erez: Right. 192 00:12:16,344 --> 00:12:26,844 Well, one thing I do with other switches when I want to soften the impact a little bit is I tend to install o-rings on my keycaps. 193 00:12:26,844 --> 00:12:34,334 And then, and then when I press it down, I can't, I don't really bottom out 'cause I bottom out on the o-ring really, not the actual switch. 194 00:12:34,624 --> 00:12:42,354 Would you say for Silent Reds, would, would o-rings be redundant because the switch already does that kind of dampening? 195 00:12:42,547 --> 00:12:46,357 Tisha: Yeah, I think that they would in large part be redundant. 196 00:12:46,447 --> 00:12:49,457 I don't know how much more dampening you're going to get- 197 00:12:49,577 --> 00:12:49,855 Erez: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 198 00:12:49,855 --> 00:12:50,637 ... Tisha: by adding o-rings. 199 00:12:50,677 --> 00:12:52,187 Maybe a tiny bit. 200 00:12:52,197 --> 00:12:56,837 So, if you're super sensitive to sound, they might help a tiny bit. 201 00:12:57,087 --> 00:13:01,987 What they will do is shorten the, the travel distance. 202 00:13:02,047 --> 00:13:13,637 So, if that's something you're looking for, then, um, then you may still like the feeling of, of o-rings with the Silent Reds because it'll be quiet and you'll have less key travel. 203 00:13:13,667 --> 00:13:15,827 There'll be less distance before you bottom out. 204 00:13:16,827 --> 00:13:19,507 Erez: That's actually really interesting what you said about the travel because... 205 00:13:20,697 --> 00:13:27,797 I- if we're going back to the laptop question, so if I wanted to emulate a laptop to, to an extent- 206 00:13:28,137 --> 00:13:28,532 Tisha: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 207 00:13:28,617 --> 00:13:40,207 ... Erez: then really I would just take a linear switch, maybe even a Silver or a Box Red or, not even specifically, uh, the Silent Red, and I can even double up the o-rings- 208 00:13:40,207 --> 00:13:40,607 Tisha: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 209 00:13:40,807 --> 00:13:43,047 ... Erez: and really narrow down the range of movement? 210 00:13:43,047 --> 00:13:48,867 Like, would that be a reasonable way to try to emulate a laptop keyboard with a mechanical one? 211 00:13:49,147 --> 00:13:49,577 Tisha: Yeah. 212 00:13:49,647 --> 00:13:52,807 I mean it's, well (A), it's probably about the only way. 213 00:13:53,477 --> 00:13:53,517 [laughs] 214 00:13:53,527 --> 00:13:53,847 Erez: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 215 00:13:54,107 --> 00:14:06,016 Tisha: But yeah, that's probably at least in my experience, I think that's about the closest that you're going to get to the feeling of a laptop keyboard, or the, the chiclet style like the Apple Magic type- 216 00:14:06,456 --> 00:14:06,696 Erez: Right. 217 00:14:06,696 --> 00:14:17,526 ... Tisha: keyboard with the very shallow keys, is, uh, a linear switch plus one or two, and I think I've even gotten away with three o-rings. 218 00:14:17,586 --> 00:14:18,156 Erez: Wow. 219 00:14:18,756 --> 00:14:22,266 Tisha: [laughs] Um, i- it, that will kind of depend on your, keycaps. 220 00:14:22,316 --> 00:14:31,406 In some cases it's doable so then you have noticeably less travel before you bottom out, and your keyboard will feel shallower. 221 00:14:32,216 --> 00:14:33,756 Erez: And will be quieter too, right? 222 00:14:34,096 --> 00:14:35,556 Tisha: Yes, it will be quieter. 223 00:14:36,036 --> 00:14:36,659 Erez: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 224 00:14:36,659 --> 00:14:37,396 Tisha: S-, you know, somewhat. 225 00:14:37,406 --> 00:14:38,266 Depends on the switch. 226 00:14:38,296 --> 00:14:45,986 Now, if you add o-rings to something like a Cherry MX Blue which is clicky, eh, it's probably not gonna be a lot quieter. 227 00:14:45,986 --> 00:14:46,181 [laughs] 228 00:14:46,376 --> 00:14:46,796 Erez: [laughs] Right. 229 00:14:47,053 --> 00:14:47,843 Right, for sure. 230 00:14:48,503 --> 00:14:48,963 Okay. 231 00:14:48,973 --> 00:14:53,113 So then was that the Silent Red? 232 00:14:53,123 --> 00:14:55,093 Do we want to say anything else about that switch? 233 00:14:55,353 --> 00:15:19,983 Tisha: I think, you know, if you like the, the idea of a, a fairly lightweight linear switch, something that's really easy on your fingers but not so easy that you accidentally shoot off letters [laughs] when you don't mean to, um, and you want something really quiet, then the Cherry MX Silent Red is a good, a good choice I think. 234 00:15:20,863 --> 00:15:21,273 Erez: Cool. 235 00:15:21,733 --> 00:15:21,863 Tisha: Yeah. 236 00:15:22,033 --> 00:15:32,313 Erez: I guess, I guess one thing I will, I will say again here is that maybe by the time you're listening to this we already have MX Red and Silent Red also for the Moonlander. 237 00:15:32,813 --> 00:15:34,163 Uh, I'm definitely working on it. 238 00:15:34,193 --> 00:15:35,623 But yeah, for now, we don't have them yet. 239 00:15:35,623 --> 00:15:41,503 I just, I did, we did want to include them in this episode because they're good switches. 240 00:15:41,513 --> 00:15:41,833 So- 241 00:15:41,853 --> 00:15:42,073 Tisha: Right. 242 00:15:42,073 --> 00:15:43,093 ... Erez: we're definitely working on it. 243 00:15:43,613 --> 00:15:43,923 Tisha: Yeah. 244 00:15:43,993 --> 00:15:58,403 And if you're, uh, if you get an ErgoDox EZ Original or Shine with the underboard LEDs or the Planck EZ, um, standard, you can get any of those with the Cherry MX Red or Silent Red switches. 245 00:15:59,433 --> 00:15:59,773 Erez: Cool. 246 00:16:00,283 --> 00:16:08,893 So, and, and finally we get to the last red switch which is one that we do carry RGB versions of. 247 00:16:08,893 --> 00:16:09,303 Tisha: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 248 00:16:09,303 --> 00:16:11,433 Erez: That would be the Kailh Box Red, right? 249 00:16:11,853 --> 00:16:12,293 Tisha: Right. 250 00:16:12,723 --> 00:16:13,393 Erez: What's that like? 251 00:16:13,683 --> 00:16:18,243 Tisha: Well, it's really similar to Cherry MX Red. 252 00:16:18,343 --> 00:16:30,893 If you listened to the episode about brown switches, kind of in the way that Kailh Box Brown is similar to Cherry MX Brown, so Kailh Box Red is similar to Cherry MX Red. 253 00:16:31,553 --> 00:16:36,433 It has the same force rating and yeah, they're very, very similar. 254 00:16:36,833 --> 00:16:45,143 I would say that the Kailh Box Red may feel a little bit smoother than the Cherry MX Red. 255 00:16:45,283 --> 00:16:56,796 Some people find Cherry switches to have, I don't know, some people describe it as a little scratchy or a little sandy or rough feeling. 256 00:16:57,486 --> 00:16:58,366 Erez: For the Cherry? 257 00:16:58,416 --> 00:16:59,556 Tisha: Cherry switches, yeah. 258 00:16:59,606 --> 00:16:59,726 Erez: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 259 00:16:59,746 --> 00:17:05,226 Tisha: Some people find that they kind of have this, a little, yeah, I don't know, I guess a little roughness. 260 00:17:05,596 --> 00:17:11,733 The Kailh Box switches tend not to have that feeling, tend to be smoother feeling. 261 00:17:12,733 --> 00:17:38,943 And to me, and th-, and this is a very subtle difference, [laughs] I think that the Kailh Box Red might feel just the tiniest bit springier than Cherry MX Red, that like the, the recoil, the up, I don't know, what you wanna, the upstroke I guess, um, maybe be, you know, just like a tiny bit firmer. 262 00:17:39,266 --> 00:17:39,676 Erez: Right. 263 00:17:40,036 --> 00:17:44,766 Tisha: This is, uh, this is a really, really subtle [laughs] difference. 264 00:17:44,976 --> 00:17:49,306 But if we're looking for differences, yeah, I sort of notice that. 265 00:17:50,136 --> 00:17:50,176 [laughs] 266 00:17:50,626 --> 00:17:51,136 Erez: Cool. 267 00:17:52,166 --> 00:18:06,826 I guess, I guess another big difference with the Box switches in general but also the Box Reds in particular is the stem and how the switch mates with the keycap because of the stem, right? 268 00:18:07,006 --> 00:18:08,656 Tisha: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 269 00:18:08,776 --> 00:18:20,996 Yeah, the, the Box switches are aptly named because there's a little box around the little cross or X which is the part that, uh, interfaces with the keycap. 270 00:18:22,156 --> 00:18:37,156 What that means, what that should mean in practice [laughs] is that it gives the switch a little bit more sort of dust and, um, splash protection. 271 00:18:37,636 --> 00:18:42,586 So the Box switches have a little more, I guess protection is the right word- 272 00:18:42,816 --> 00:18:43,081 Erez: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 273 00:18:43,116 --> 00:18:45,176 ... Tisha: um, from dust, debris and liquids. 274 00:18:45,186 --> 00:18:53,036 I mean you can't, you can't expect to spill your coffee on your keyboard and have everything be okay just because you have Box switches. 275 00:18:53,036 --> 00:18:53,191 [laughs] 276 00:18:53,346 --> 00:18:53,746 Erez: Right. 277 00:18:53,926 --> 00:19:04,516 Tisha: But, um, you know, a couple of drops here and there are less likely to cause problems with the board or the switches if you have Box switches than if you have standard ones. 278 00:19:04,516 --> 00:19:04,846 Erez: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 279 00:19:06,190 --> 00:19:13,520 Tisha: However, as a side effect the fit with some types of keycaps is tighter, uh- 280 00:19:13,530 --> 00:19:13,540 Erez: Hmm. 281 00:19:13,550 --> 00:19:14,570 ... Tisha: with the box switches. 282 00:19:14,746 --> 00:19:22,006 So this is the reason we don't offer the Kailh Box switches with non-RGB keyboards. 283 00:19:22,229 --> 00:19:22,949 ' Erez: Cause they got different keycaps? 284 00:19:23,919 --> 00:19:24,539 Tisha: Right. 285 00:19:24,789 --> 00:19:25,419 Erez: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 286 00:19:25,749 --> 00:19:35,812 Tisha: Our non-backlit keycaps have a tight enough fit with the Box switches that sometimes the keycap stems crack or break. 287 00:19:36,282 --> 00:19:37,232 Erez: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 288 00:19:37,562 --> 00:19:54,965 Tisha: So just to be on the safe side, you know, so that we're not sending you something that has, that we know, [laughs] um, has a certain likelihood of breaking , we only offer the Kailh Box switches with backlit keyboards which means Moonlander, ErgoDox EZ Glow and Planck EZ Glow. 289 00:19:55,645 --> 00:20:00,126 Those keycaps which are m- made by a different manufacturer, uh, the fit seems just fine. 290 00:20:00,206 --> 00:20:01,986 Erez: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 291 00:20:02,546 --> 00:20:02,916 Cool. 292 00:20:03,100 --> 00:20:03,660 All right. 293 00:20:03,670 --> 00:20:11,620 So then, what would you say subjectively if I am on the fence, like, "I'm not sure. 294 00:20:11,670 --> 00:20:18,310 Do I, do I want to wait for the MX Reds or Silent Reds to become available for the Glow? 295 00:20:18,650 --> 00:20:28,870 Or do I want to just go for the Box Reds or, or go, you know, or lose the lighting and just go for something that has the Silent Red or MX Red?" 296 00:20:29,350 --> 00:20:31,560 What, what would you do there? 297 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:34,470 Tisha: Uh, boy. 298 00:20:35,290 --> 00:20:40,860 [laughs] It depends on, uh, on what's most important to you I think. 299 00:20:41,090 --> 00:20:57,150 Like if you, um, if you have to take notes in a Zoom meeting, s- stuff like that, if you have to be typing while people are talking, you may want to think about the Silent Reds because then you don't have to worry about stabbing at the mute button and stuff. 300 00:20:57,190 --> 00:21:07,880 Um, people will probably not hear, uh, much typing noise if you're using the Silent Red switch. 301 00:21:08,730 --> 00:21:25,930 Or, you know, or if you're in a shared workspace and your office mate or house mate, [laughs] requires a quiet working environment, or if you, you know, require a quiet working environment for whatever reason, just preference or the type of work you do, then the Silent Red is a good choice. 302 00:21:26,125 --> 00:21:28,665 Erez: You were talking about this and it kinda made me want to try something. 303 00:21:28,665 --> 00:21:31,045 So, I got, I got a linear switch right here. 304 00:21:31,045 --> 00:21:33,765 I have the, uh, the Kailh Silver. 305 00:21:33,765 --> 00:21:34,515 Tisha: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 306 00:21:34,515 --> 00:21:37,565 Erez: So, I'm just gonna do a bunch of typing right here on the recording, uh- 307 00:21:37,805 --> 00:21:38,075 Tisha: Okay. 308 00:21:41,325 --> 00:21:47,385 ... Erez: and we can decide if it's loud or if it's kind of bearable or like how audible is this on your side? 309 00:21:48,955 --> 00:21:49,585 Tisha: It's audible. 310 00:21:49,585 --> 00:21:50,815 I can hear that there's typing. 311 00:21:50,815 --> 00:21:54,008 But I wouldn't call it, I wouldn't call it loud. 312 00:21:54,568 --> 00:21:54,708 Erez: Hmm. 313 00:21:54,718 --> 00:21:58,378 Tisha: Like I, it's not interfering with me understanding you. 314 00:21:58,878 --> 00:21:59,278 Erez: Right. 315 00:21:59,278 --> 00:21:59,473 Uh- 316 00:21:59,668 --> 00:22:02,828 Tisha: Now, I have a keyboard with Silent Reds here if we want to do a comparison. 317 00:22:02,828 --> 00:22:04,628 Erez: Oh yeah, let's, let- let's do that just for fun. 318 00:22:04,628 --> 00:22:11,938 Again, this is, the, the reason why we wanted to do these episodes rather than a sound test is that the sound tests are so unscientific, right? 319 00:22:11,978 --> 00:22:15,298 It depends what room you're in and the mic and everything. 320 00:22:15,298 --> 00:22:17,458 But yeah, if you got a Silent Red, let's, let's hear that. 321 00:22:17,468 --> 00:22:17,608 Tisha: Sure. 322 00:22:17,608 --> 00:22:18,035 Erez: If you want to type something, yeah. 323 00:22:18,035 --> 00:22:18,228 Tisha: Right. 324 00:22:18,718 --> 00:22:19,018 Sure. 325 00:22:19,058 --> 00:22:22,078 I mean and obviously this is also very unscientific. 326 00:22:22,318 --> 00:22:23,878 We're not in the same room. 327 00:22:24,025 --> 00:22:25,565 We're not even in the same country. 328 00:22:25,575 --> 00:22:25,615 [laughs] 329 00:22:26,445 --> 00:22:26,755 Erez: Right. 330 00:22:26,825 --> 00:22:28,592 Tisha: And, um, you know, uh- 331 00:22:28,592 --> 00:22:30,829 Erez: There's, there's like American side on, sound on your side and- 332 00:22:30,829 --> 00:22:30,963 Tisha: [laughs] 333 00:22:30,963 --> 00:22:32,395 ... Erez: mine is like totally Canadian sound. 334 00:22:32,465 --> 00:22:33,595 Tisha: Exactly, right. 335 00:22:33,625 --> 00:22:37,535 Like, um, when I type, I'm not gonna put any U's in color and favorite. 336 00:22:37,535 --> 00:22:37,575 Erez: [laughs] 337 00:22:37,575 --> 00:22:45,195 Tisha: [laughs] And, um, but, you know, I'm sure that our typing styles are different, all that kind of stuff. 338 00:22:45,225 --> 00:22:52,785 Um, but anyway I'm just gonna, I am typing away with, um, the Silent Reds. 339 00:22:56,115 --> 00:22:57,625 Erez: Wow, that is actually super quiet. 340 00:22:57,955 --> 00:22:58,265 Tisha: Right. 341 00:22:58,315 --> 00:22:58,855 And, uh, I'm not- 342 00:22:59,085 --> 00:23:00,555 Erez: Oh, but, but you're not using... 343 00:23:00,575 --> 00:23:02,755 I'm using like a, a desk mic. 344 00:23:02,755 --> 00:23:09,535 I'm using a Blue Yeti so it's kind of hovering over my keyboard whereas you are using, um, a headset one, right? 345 00:23:09,675 --> 00:23:10,025 Tisha: Right. 346 00:23:10,095 --> 00:23:13,825 So, I'm gonna, [laughs] this is, I'm glad there's not a camera. 347 00:23:14,195 --> 00:23:17,515 I'm gonna put my face down close to the keyboard- 348 00:23:17,535 --> 00:23:17,624 Erez: [laughs] 349 00:23:17,624 --> 00:23:17,801 ... Tisha: and type. 350 00:23:17,801 --> 00:23:19,605 Erez: Which is not a realistic scenario to be fair. 351 00:23:19,605 --> 00:23:21,185 I mean that's not something that's gonna happen in a- 352 00:23:21,195 --> 00:23:21,845 Tisha: Exactly. 353 00:23:21,885 --> 00:23:30,300 But like if you, if you're doing some recording right in front of where your keyboard is, it may be, it may be fairly close. 354 00:23:30,310 --> 00:23:30,330 Erez: Yeah. 355 00:23:30,340 --> 00:23:39,080 Tisha: So, um, let's take the visual out of this, of me hunched over with my face right by my keyboard- 356 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:39,270 Erez: Okay. 357 00:23:39,460 --> 00:23:42,580 ... Tisha: and imagine a, a microphone close by. 358 00:23:43,090 --> 00:23:48,770 Here we go, I would say I'm, I would say the mic is maybe an inch and a half away. 359 00:23:54,610 --> 00:23:55,580 Erez: Wow, that's quiet. 360 00:23:55,610 --> 00:23:56,920 That is super quiet. 361 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:01,830 Like there's no way that would bug me on a call even, even like that, yeah. 362 00:24:02,230 --> 00:24:04,050 So, that's, that's Silent Reds. 363 00:24:04,250 --> 00:24:05,080 Tisha: Right, yeah. 364 00:24:05,140 --> 00:24:06,710 Erez: Yeah, so it really does make a difference. 365 00:24:06,710 --> 00:24:10,460 I think, again, it's, it's hard to tell because I was typing on my side. 366 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:12,620 Uh, we'll see what, what the recording comes out as. 367 00:24:12,980 --> 00:24:18,120 But, uh, to me it sounded significantly quieter than the Kailh Silver I was typing on. 368 00:24:18,770 --> 00:24:19,150 Tisha: Okay. 369 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:20,040 Um, cool. 370 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,950 That was a good, that was a good little experiment to do. 371 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:23,000 [laughs] 372 00:24:24,650 --> 00:24:25,080 Erez: Cool. 373 00:24:25,180 --> 00:24:42,880 So then I guess, I guess to answer my own question from before, I guess what I would do if I wanted a Silent Red board right now, I would probably get a backlit one with different switches, like maybe I would get even a board with clicky switches just for variety. 374 00:24:43,130 --> 00:24:49,940 And then I would get a set of Silent Reds to put into my board, and that way I, I have the best of both worlds. 375 00:24:50,610 --> 00:24:51,750 Tisha: Mm-hmm [affirmative], sure. 376 00:24:52,070 --> 00:24:56,760 RGB compatible Cherry MX Silent Reds are... 377 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:58,130 th- they do make them. 378 00:24:58,810 --> 00:25:01,000 They're not always the easiest things to find. 379 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:03,630 But, but they exist. 380 00:25:03,630 --> 00:25:13,002 [laughs] Um, and there are other silenced, there are both, you know, silenced tactile and linear switches. 381 00:25:13,402 --> 00:25:24,422 Um, but there are other types of silenced linear switches like, um, Kailh makes one, the Kailh Box Si-, I don't, I can't remember right off the top of my head if they're called Silent Red or Silent Pink. 382 00:25:25,332 --> 00:25:29,962 And I haven't used those myself so I can't really speak to what they're like. 383 00:25:30,112 --> 00:25:33,635 But I imagine that they are, you know, that they're similar- 384 00:25:33,635 --> 00:25:33,745 Erez: Right. 385 00:25:33,745 --> 00:25:35,555 ... Tisha: to the Cherry MX Silent Red, right? 386 00:25:35,555 --> 00:25:43,315 So, Kailh makes one, um, Zeal PC makes some silenced linear switches. 387 00:25:43,455 --> 00:25:47,165 The Healios and one or two other types. 388 00:25:47,165 --> 00:25:52,835 [laughs] So there are, there are, um, options available out there if you're interested. 389 00:25:53,295 --> 00:25:53,735 Erez: Cool. 390 00:25:54,675 --> 00:25:56,455 All right, yeah, this was a really fun one. 391 00:25:56,825 --> 00:25:57,225 Tisha: Yeah. 392 00:25:57,225 --> 00:25:57,740 Erez: [laughs] 393 00:25:58,255 --> 00:25:58,295 Tisha: [laughs] 394 00:25:58,765 --> 00:25:59,645 Erez: Thank you very much. 395 00:25:59,695 --> 00:26:00,195 Tisha: All right, sure. 396 00:26:00,195 --> 00:26:00,435 Thank you. 397 00:26:00,435 --> 00:26:01,685 Erez: See you on the next one. 398 00:26:01,815 --> 00:26:02,185 Tisha: Yep. 399 00:26:02,615 --> 00:26:03,005 Erez: Bye. 400 00:26:03,105 --> 00:26:03,385 Tisha: Bye-bye