Gold

Hello, and welcome to Tisha Talks Switches. 2 00:00:07,999 --> 00:00:14,199 I'm Erez from ZSA, and with me here today is Tisha, our resident switch expert and support lead. 3 00:00:14,489 --> 00:00:15,540 How's it going, Tisha? 4 00:00:15,910 --> 00:00:17,160 Tisha: Hi, it's going pretty well. 5 00:00:17,180 --> 00:00:17,680 How are you? 6 00:00:18,240 --> 00:00:18,790 Erez: I'm good. 7 00:00:19,030 --> 00:00:19,400 I'm good. 8 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:20,270 It's, it's interesting. 9 00:00:20,270 --> 00:00:28,050 You know, we're recording this early September, and here in Southern Ontario, the moment you flip to September, it feels like, okay, Fall is here. 10 00:00:28,220 --> 00:00:28,260 Tisha: [laughs] 11 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:32,679 Erez: The seasons are really on the clock, so it's been a cooler day here, but it's nice. 12 00:00:32,979 --> 00:00:33,239 Tisha: Right. 13 00:00:33,269 --> 00:00:33,509 Good. 14 00:00:33,529 --> 00:00:42,159 Here in Chicago, it was still blazing hot at the very beginning of September as it kind of has been in the late summer. 15 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:46,129 But the last couple of days have been finally very pleasant. 16 00:00:46,446 --> 00:00:48,876 I would still prefer it cooler- [laughs] 17 00:00:48,966 --> 00:00:49,006 Erez: [laughs] 18 00:00:49,006 --> 00:00:55,087 ... Tisha: But a 20 degree Fahrenheit [laughs] drop in temperature was still very welcome. 19 00:00:55,257 --> 00:00:56,817 So yeah, it's a nice day today. 20 00:00:57,487 --> 00:00:58,147 Erez: That's awesome. 21 00:00:58,464 --> 00:00:59,754 So Gold. 22 00:00:59,954 --> 00:01:00,514 Tisha: Yeah. 23 00:01:00,854 --> 00:01:05,689 Erez: Which for us also includes Thick Gold, now known as Bronze. 24 00:01:06,089 --> 00:01:06,289 [laughs] 25 00:01:06,549 --> 00:01:07,179 Tisha: Right. 26 00:01:07,589 --> 00:01:23,038 Which, yeah, the, [laughs] these are confusing names and at least, to me, the name change that should have made things less confusing actually just kinda makes things more confusing, but maybe that's just me. 27 00:01:23,338 --> 00:01:23,378 [laughs] 28 00:01:24,318 --> 00:01:25,018 Erez: I'm with you. 29 00:01:25,018 --> 00:01:30,818 I mean, to me, Thick Gold is just a brilliant name for a keyswitch and I wish they just kept it. 30 00:01:31,428 --> 00:01:31,498 [laughs] 31 00:01:31,498 --> 00:01:34,948 Tisha: I, I do too because the change is confusing. 32 00:01:34,968 --> 00:01:39,982 Although, I never really understood what Thick Gold was supposed to really... 33 00:01:40,022 --> 00:01:41,972 what the thick part was really supposed to be. 34 00:01:42,042 --> 00:01:42,892 But anyway. 35 00:01:44,342 --> 00:01:44,382 [laughs] 36 00:01:44,642 --> 00:01:45,552 Erez: I just liked it. 37 00:01:45,802 --> 00:01:45,842 [laughs] 38 00:01:45,852 --> 00:01:46,412 Tisha: Yeah, it is. 39 00:01:47,022 --> 00:01:52,415 It's a fun name, even if it maybe doesn't make the most sense of anything in the world. 40 00:01:52,505 --> 00:01:52,585 [laughs] 41 00:01:53,785 --> 00:01:53,955 Erez: Yeah. 42 00:01:53,955 --> 00:01:55,305 I, I think that's half the fun. 43 00:01:55,305 --> 00:01:56,565 Like, "Okay, what is thick?" 44 00:01:57,745 --> 00:01:57,785 Tisha: [laughs] 45 00:01:57,785 --> 00:01:58,281 Erez: Like "What's, what's thick here?" 46 00:01:58,281 --> 00:01:58,457 Tisha: Right. 47 00:01:58,457 --> 00:01:59,635 Erez: Like, it's, it's great. 48 00:01:59,895 --> 00:02:03,575 And it, it sounds kind of like vaguely ominous and heavy. 49 00:02:03,575 --> 00:02:05,615 Like it's just a good thing. 50 00:02:05,615 --> 00:02:06,165 Tisha: [laughs] Right. 51 00:02:06,165 --> 00:02:06,515 Yeah. 52 00:02:06,855 --> 00:02:07,165 Yeah. 53 00:02:07,306 --> 00:02:08,446 Erez: So, okay. 54 00:02:08,446 --> 00:02:10,606 So both are clicky and both are Kailh, right? 55 00:02:10,606 --> 00:02:11,239 Tisha: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 56 00:02:11,556 --> 00:02:13,506 Erez: Which one should we talk about first? 57 00:02:13,586 --> 00:02:28,746 Tisha: Well, so first off, I think we can mention a little bit what they have in common, which is that they're both Speed Switches, which means that they actuate right before the click. 58 00:02:29,356 --> 00:02:42,368 The actuation point is very high, so if you press the switch slowly, either of them, you will see the character on the screen kind of right before you hear the click. 59 00:02:42,772 --> 00:02:47,392 Erez: Do you think it's possible to use them super, super lightly without having them click? 60 00:02:47,895 --> 00:02:50,027 Tisha: Yeah, technically that should be possible. 61 00:02:50,077 --> 00:02:54,331 It would be hard to do so consistently, I think. 62 00:02:54,741 --> 00:02:57,231 But yeah, I think it is probably possible. 63 00:02:57,404 --> 00:02:57,944 Erez: Interesting. 64 00:02:57,944 --> 00:03:02,154 I've been thinking a lot about pianists and, you know, people trained in other disciplines. 65 00:03:02,154 --> 00:03:08,624 I wonder if like there's a skill set where you can train yourself to silently type on clicky switches. 66 00:03:08,624 --> 00:03:09,389 [laughs] 67 00:03:10,154 --> 00:03:10,954 Tisha: [laughs] Right. 68 00:03:10,954 --> 00:03:13,424 Well, if they're a Speed Switch, you probably could. 69 00:03:13,984 --> 00:03:23,014 But that would be, to me at least, and I can tell you that I am a trained, but not professional pianist. 70 00:03:23,814 --> 00:03:27,724 I've had decades of piano lessons, so a lot of experience. 71 00:03:28,121 --> 00:03:35,631 Trying to type that way, to me, requires quite a bit of tension in your finger and hand muscles. 72 00:03:35,731 --> 00:03:49,261 So I think, at least for me, it wouldn't be worth it because it's actually harder to type that way than to type with more force, if that makes sense. 73 00:03:49,421 --> 00:03:49,911 Erez: It does. 74 00:03:49,951 --> 00:03:51,161 It's less ergonomic. 75 00:03:51,161 --> 00:03:52,251 I, I can see that. 76 00:03:52,371 --> 00:03:52,891 Tisha: Right. 77 00:03:52,911 --> 00:03:56,911 Because you're kind of straining against your natural hand and finger motions. 78 00:03:57,921 --> 00:04:05,071 Erez: Which is interesting in contrast to, for example, the wrist rest, where we often tell people, "Don't use the wrist rests." 79 00:04:05,651 --> 00:04:14,014 And that when you're not using the wrist rests you are using your body to prop up the other parts of your body, but that seems more ergonomic sometimes, right? 80 00:04:14,324 --> 00:04:15,794 Tisha: Yeah, that's true. 81 00:04:15,874 --> 00:04:21,851 I think that that is maybe more about positioning than, I guess individual movements. 82 00:04:21,851 --> 00:04:23,141 That's just an opinion, though. 83 00:04:23,781 --> 00:04:24,031 Erez: Right. 84 00:04:24,181 --> 00:04:28,651 Tisha: And it is coming from, [laughs] it's the opinion of someone who doesn't use a wrist rest. 85 00:04:29,141 --> 00:04:29,819 Erez: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 86 00:04:29,819 --> 00:04:29,854 Tisha: Um, so- 87 00:04:29,871 --> 00:04:30,921 Erez: And was a pianist right? 88 00:04:30,921 --> 00:04:31,131 I mean that-. 89 00:04:31,151 --> 00:04:31,421 Tisha: Right. 90 00:04:32,101 --> 00:04:36,311 Erez: I think those two are related, but that's foreshadowing for maybe something that will come later, but yeah. 91 00:04:36,311 --> 00:04:37,341 Tisha: [laughs] Sure. 92 00:04:37,411 --> 00:04:37,841 Yeah. 93 00:04:37,961 --> 00:04:38,251 Yeah. 94 00:04:38,531 --> 00:04:50,841 So anyway, yeah, the point is that these actuate very early in the downstroke, which some people really like, and some people don't really notice, and I would say a small proportion of people don't like. 95 00:04:51,711 --> 00:04:51,926 Erez: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 96 00:04:51,981 --> 00:04:57,271 Tisha: So if you know that you're someone who doesn't like that real early actuation, then you may not really be into these switches. 97 00:04:58,011 --> 00:05:03,001 Erez: Do you think that increases the, the very high up actuation, does that increase the chances of chatter? 98 00:05:03,431 --> 00:05:04,171 Chatter is when uh... 99 00:05:04,195 --> 00:05:04,643 Sorry, just wanna use kind of jargon. 100 00:05:04,707 --> 00:05:05,837 Tisha: Right, sure. 101 00:05:06,357 --> 00:05:09,687 Erez: So chatter is when you press a key once, but you get more than one character on the screen. 102 00:05:09,834 --> 00:05:13,184 So is that more likely to happen with these? 103 00:05:13,494 --> 00:05:14,764 Tisha: You know, I'm not sure. 104 00:05:14,999 --> 00:05:15,649 Maybe. 105 00:05:16,179 --> 00:05:19,689 It does increase the chance of just plain accidental keystrokes. 106 00:05:19,959 --> 00:05:29,739 You know, you bump a switch by accident, or if you sit with your fingers on the keys when you're not typing, maybe you tap your fingers or wiggle them a little bit. 107 00:05:29,979 --> 00:05:32,169 You're more likely to get an accidental keystroke. 108 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:34,779 Chatter, I mean maybe. 109 00:05:35,089 --> 00:05:35,579 But- 110 00:05:35,689 --> 00:05:36,899 Erez: Have we heard from people... 111 00:05:36,899 --> 00:05:37,169 Like have people told us that? 112 00:05:37,169 --> 00:05:37,469 Tisha: I don't... 113 00:05:39,159 --> 00:05:42,459 We have heard from a few peo-... 114 00:05:42,499 --> 00:05:55,459 And by a few, I mean, let's say two or three in the past year [laughs] who have had some, persistently chattering switches that were one of the Speed Switches, one of the Kailh Speed Switches. 115 00:05:56,049 --> 00:06:00,779 But considering the number of people out there who have these switches, that's a really low number. 116 00:06:01,079 --> 00:06:01,559 Erez: Right. 117 00:06:01,679 --> 00:06:05,129 Tisha: Low enough for me to think it's probably more just a fluke- 118 00:06:05,139 --> 00:06:05,919 Erez: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 119 00:06:06,009 --> 00:06:08,269 ... Tisha: and not a trend or... 120 00:06:08,269 --> 00:06:09,619 That's not really the right word. 121 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:09,879 [laughs] 122 00:06:09,879 --> 00:06:12,649 Erez: Not like a systemic issue? 123 00:06:12,769 --> 00:06:13,489 Tisha: Right. 124 00:06:13,599 --> 00:06:15,749 But I don't know, you know? 125 00:06:15,819 --> 00:06:23,971 I'm not enough of a either statistician or mechanically minded person to have a real great opinion on that [laughs] I think. 126 00:06:23,971 --> 00:06:24,661 Erez: I hear. 127 00:06:24,931 --> 00:06:25,101 Yeah. 128 00:06:25,101 --> 00:06:26,921 But anecdotally, I mean, I agree. 129 00:06:26,921 --> 00:06:32,321 It's one of those things where just reading about the switch, I would think, oh, you might get chatter. 130 00:06:32,321 --> 00:06:38,471 But then so many people use it, and yeah, I, I personally also haven't really seen people say, "Oh, it chatters." 131 00:06:38,711 --> 00:06:40,711 So I, I guess they solved it somehow. 132 00:06:40,711 --> 00:06:40,731 Yeah. 133 00:06:41,451 --> 00:06:42,431 Tisha: Right, right. 134 00:06:43,191 --> 00:06:50,034 I think that they're probably not more likely than other switches, but that is just, I guess kind of an opinion. 135 00:06:50,834 --> 00:06:50,874 [laughs] 136 00:06:50,894 --> 00:06:51,094 Erez: Yeah. 137 00:06:51,154 --> 00:07:06,354 No, that makes sense to me, actually, now that I think of it because in firmware we use something called the debounce, which basically allows the processor to filter out repeated presses if they happen, you know, if they're fast enough. 138 00:07:06,484 --> 00:07:08,167 So, it only lets out one. 139 00:07:08,697 --> 00:07:09,077 Tisha: Right. 140 00:07:09,187 --> 00:07:11,197 Erez: And maybe that's what helps there. 141 00:07:11,237 --> 00:07:11,647 I don't know. 142 00:07:12,097 --> 00:07:13,637 So, okay. 143 00:07:13,687 --> 00:07:16,047 Should we talk about Kailh Gold first? 144 00:07:16,257 --> 00:07:16,657 Tisha: Sure. 145 00:07:16,687 --> 00:07:21,287 We'll talk about Kailh Gold, which is, you know, both of these switches are... 146 00:07:22,937 --> 00:07:29,157 If you could, [laughs] if you can think of key switches as fun, I would say both of these keyswitches are fun. 147 00:07:29,597 --> 00:07:30,807 Erez: Oh, the switches are fun. 148 00:07:30,807 --> 00:07:30,867 Tisha: Switches. 149 00:07:30,877 --> 00:07:31,387 Um- 150 00:07:31,397 --> 00:07:31,582 Erez: They are so fun. 151 00:07:31,637 --> 00:07:32,057 Tisha: Yeah. 152 00:07:32,277 --> 00:07:39,023 And the Gold is just a, I don't know, like a really crisp feeling switch. 153 00:07:41,113 --> 00:07:43,118 Erez: Yeah, is that clicking, is that clicking Gold that I hear there? 154 00:07:43,133 --> 00:07:43,913 Tisha: Yeah, that's Gold. 155 00:07:46,503 --> 00:07:46,543 [laughs] 156 00:07:46,543 --> 00:07:47,025 Erez: If you wanna put it close to the mic. 157 00:07:47,063 --> 00:07:47,453 Tisha: Sure. 158 00:07:49,460 --> 00:07:50,483 Erez: What, what keyboard is it on? 159 00:07:50,483 --> 00:07:50,506 Tisha: It is in a, this is an ErgoDox EZ. 160 00:07:50,506 --> 00:07:50,511 Erez: Oh, interesting. 161 00:07:50,511 --> 00:07:50,534 I have an ErgoDox EZ with Gold as well. 162 00:07:50,534 --> 00:07:50,567 I couldn't find my Thick Gold one, but I have a Gold one. 163 00:07:50,570 --> 00:08:00,390 Tisha: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 164 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:05,080 Erez: I'm going to, I'm going to play it to the mic just because we always say, you know, don't trust these recordings. 165 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:06,630 And maybe you can play yours. 166 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:08,292 Same keyboard, same switches, different room, different mic- 167 00:08:08,292 --> 00:08:09,310 Tisha: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 168 00:08:09,310 --> 00:08:11,040 ... Erez: and I bet it's going to sound completely different. 169 00:08:11,310 --> 00:08:11,630 Tisha: Oh, yeah. 170 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:12,300 Sure. 171 00:08:12,310 --> 00:08:13,290 Erez: So, so here's mine. 172 00:08:13,300 --> 00:08:13,940 Tisha: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 173 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:21,450 Erez: Okay. 174 00:08:21,770 --> 00:08:22,120 Tisha: Okay. 175 00:08:23,370 --> 00:08:24,350 Yeah, mine. 176 00:08:24,490 --> 00:08:27,465 Erez: That was it? 177 00:08:27,835 --> 00:08:28,055 Tisha: Yep. 178 00:08:28,555 --> 00:08:29,515 Erez: Oh, that was a short one, okay. 179 00:08:29,515 --> 00:08:30,785 I was like, I kept waiting for more. 180 00:08:30,905 --> 00:08:31,955 Do, do you wanna do a bit more? 181 00:08:32,205 --> 00:08:32,795 Tisha: Oh, sure. 182 00:08:34,808 --> 00:08:35,118 Erez: Yeah. 183 00:08:35,548 --> 00:08:36,238 I think it sounds... 184 00:08:36,278 --> 00:08:36,618 I don't know. 185 00:08:36,618 --> 00:08:37,908 Well, we'll know in the audio. 186 00:08:37,958 --> 00:08:39,328 We'll know in the end how different it sounds. 187 00:08:39,328 --> 00:08:39,368 Tisha: [laughs] 188 00:08:39,368 --> 00:08:40,928 Erez: But I have a feeling it sounds really different. 189 00:08:40,928 --> 00:08:41,108 Tisha: Right. 190 00:08:41,288 --> 00:08:42,168 Right, yeah. 191 00:08:42,198 --> 00:08:42,618 Me, too. 192 00:08:43,568 --> 00:08:54,418 I tend to use the Cherry MX Blue as the kind of baseline to compare other clicky switches to because it's a, a popular and well-known one. 193 00:08:54,562 --> 00:08:58,092 So, the Kailh Gold, to me, feels... 194 00:08:59,732 --> 00:09:06,742 I, I think the rating might be around the same, but it feels a little lighter to me than Cherry MX Blue. 195 00:09:07,612 --> 00:09:12,452 And I think it's because the tactile bump is a little less firm. 196 00:09:13,162 --> 00:09:20,169 Like Cherry MX Blue, I feel like you really kind of have to push through that bump, you know? 197 00:09:20,169 --> 00:09:20,374 Erez: Yeah. 198 00:09:20,579 --> 00:09:23,039 Tisha: It, it feels like more of a stop. 199 00:09:23,269 --> 00:09:25,309 Kailh Gold, it's a little gentler. 200 00:09:25,309 --> 00:09:27,819 You don't really have to push through it quite as much. 201 00:09:28,829 --> 00:09:29,029 but- 202 00:09:29,029 --> 00:09:29,329 Erez: It's really interesting. 203 00:09:29,549 --> 00:09:29,899 Tisha: Yeah. 204 00:09:29,899 --> 00:09:31,829 It's kind of a medium weight switch overall. 205 00:09:31,839 --> 00:09:39,559 It feels, it's got a nice substantial feeling under your fingers without feeling sluggish or overly, you know, heavy. 206 00:09:40,399 --> 00:09:45,079 Erez: 'Cause I also noticed that it feels somehow a little bit crisper than the MX Blue. 207 00:09:45,079 --> 00:09:45,269 Tisha: Yeah. 208 00:09:45,269 --> 00:09:48,449 Erez: And I had always thought it's the audio. 209 00:09:48,489 --> 00:09:50,619 It's like the, the pitch of the click, because it's a... 210 00:09:51,189 --> 00:09:52,029 The click- 211 00:09:52,429 --> 00:09:52,702 Tisha: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 212 00:09:52,702 --> 00:09:55,659 Erez: Like the audible click is, I would say it's crisper, right? 213 00:09:55,659 --> 00:09:56,279 Would you, would you... 214 00:09:56,289 --> 00:09:56,949 than the Blue? 215 00:09:57,609 --> 00:09:58,239 Tisha: Yeah. 216 00:09:58,399 --> 00:09:58,849 Yeah. 217 00:09:58,849 --> 00:10:00,329 Erez: And I thought that's why, but it's... 218 00:10:00,329 --> 00:10:01,899 So it's actually maybe two things. 219 00:10:01,899 --> 00:10:08,211 Like it's one, the kind of more subtle actuation, and two, the audio characteristics of it, right? 220 00:10:08,441 --> 00:10:09,041 Tisha: Right. 221 00:10:09,931 --> 00:10:10,401 Erez: Interesting. 222 00:10:11,381 --> 00:10:11,901 Tisha: Yeah. 223 00:10:11,951 --> 00:10:19,391 And it's got a, another comparison to the Blue is that I think the click is a little lower pitched. 224 00:10:19,581 --> 00:10:21,591 Erez: Oh, lower pitched, because I just said higher pitched. 225 00:10:21,631 --> 00:10:22,211 Interesting. 226 00:10:22,241 --> 00:10:22,781 Tisha: Oh, did you? 227 00:10:22,781 --> 00:10:24,111 Yeah, I, I guess I didn't catch that. 228 00:10:24,121 --> 00:10:24,591 To me... 229 00:10:24,611 --> 00:10:31,934 So again, your mileage may vary, but the Blue has that almost like ticky click- [laughs] 230 00:10:32,104 --> 00:10:32,289 Erez: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 231 00:10:32,294 --> 00:10:33,624 ... Tisha: for lack of a better word. 232 00:10:33,934 --> 00:10:37,714 It's, it's high pitched and tappy or, or ticky. 233 00:10:37,724 --> 00:10:38,244 So... 234 00:10:39,819 --> 00:10:40,389 Erez: That was Blue. 235 00:10:40,651 --> 00:10:44,821 Tisha: That's Blue in a Planck, Gold in the ErgoDox. 236 00:10:47,771 --> 00:10:48,991 There's, I don't know. 237 00:10:50,371 --> 00:10:52,341 This is all, [laughs] this is all very spec- 238 00:10:52,491 --> 00:10:56,491 Erez: Can you go like, can you go like Blue, Gold, Blue, Gold, like right one after the other a few times? 239 00:10:56,491 --> 00:10:57,051 Tisha: Sure. 240 00:10:57,101 --> 00:10:57,851 Um, just... 241 00:10:58,011 --> 00:10:58,441 Oops. 242 00:10:58,561 --> 00:11:00,291 I'm knocking over everything on my desk now. 243 00:11:00,641 --> 00:11:06,741 Um, [laughs] uh, just bearing in mind that, uh, they're in two different keyboards. 244 00:11:06,791 --> 00:11:07,011 Erez: Yeah. 245 00:11:07,951 --> 00:11:11,611 Tisha: So I'll start with Blue and I'll alternate Blue, Gold, Blue, Gold. 246 00:11:11,841 --> 00:11:16,618 Erez: Mm-hmm [ affirmative]. 247 00:11:16,898 --> 00:11:17,448 Okay. 248 00:11:17,518 --> 00:11:17,918 Yeah. 249 00:11:17,968 --> 00:11:19,118 No, definitely- 250 00:11:19,128 --> 00:11:19,168 Tisha: [laughs] 251 00:11:19,178 --> 00:11:20,338 ... Erez: definitely lower pitched. 252 00:11:20,338 --> 00:11:20,908 I was wrong. 253 00:11:20,928 --> 00:11:24,388 It is, it is a lower pitch than the, uh, than the Blue. 254 00:11:24,418 --> 00:11:24,918 You're right. 255 00:11:25,828 --> 00:11:26,428 Tisha: It's like crunchier- 256 00:11:27,518 --> 00:11:28,271 Erez: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 257 00:11:28,271 --> 00:11:28,324 ... Tisha: sorta. 258 00:11:28,378 --> 00:11:28,928 I don't know. 259 00:11:28,958 --> 00:11:29,358 Yeah. 260 00:11:30,408 --> 00:11:32,586 Like a more resonant sound. 261 00:11:32,756 --> 00:11:33,096 Erez: Cool. 262 00:11:33,356 --> 00:11:33,956 Tisha: Yeah. 263 00:11:34,526 --> 00:11:38,056 I also think that it feels a little springier than the Blue. 264 00:11:38,076 --> 00:11:42,516 Like, I think that the upstroke is a little firmer. 265 00:11:43,046 --> 00:11:51,139 Like when the spring springs back up, it does so a little bit more, uh, energetically- [laughs] 266 00:11:51,139 --> 00:11:51,339 Erez: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 267 00:11:51,339 --> 00:11:52,429 ... Tisha: than the Blue does. 268 00:11:52,429 --> 00:11:52,869 Erez: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 269 00:11:53,089 --> 00:12:02,849 Tisha: So I guess what that means is that it feels a little bit lighter in the downstroke, but a little bit firmer in the upstroke. 270 00:12:03,106 --> 00:12:03,826 Erez: Interesting. 271 00:12:04,286 --> 00:12:06,974 Tisha: These are pretty subtle differences, I think, but yeah. 272 00:12:06,974 --> 00:12:08,426 Erez: Well, the whole thing is very nuanced, you know? 273 00:12:08,596 --> 00:12:08,706 Tisha: It is. 274 00:12:09,766 --> 00:12:11,786 Erez: I was telling someone about, I was telling someone about the podcast the other day. 275 00:12:12,126 --> 00:12:14,836 Not a keyboard person, and I was trying to explain, yeah, no. 276 00:12:14,836 --> 00:12:16,266 We don't even talk about the keyboards. 277 00:12:16,266 --> 00:12:17,166 We talk about like- 278 00:12:17,686 --> 00:12:17,726 Tisha: [laughs] 279 00:12:17,726 --> 00:12:19,896 ... Erez: the little parts in the keyboard. 280 00:12:20,216 --> 00:12:21,206 It took me so long. 281 00:12:21,226 --> 00:12:22,796 It took me like five minutes to explain it. 282 00:12:22,796 --> 00:12:23,526 So yeah- 283 00:12:23,706 --> 00:12:23,746 Tisha: [laughs] 284 00:12:23,756 --> 00:12:24,216 ... Erez: nuanced. 285 00:12:24,546 --> 00:12:26,836 It's, it's definitely nuanced. 286 00:12:27,226 --> 00:12:27,456 Tisha: Right. 287 00:12:27,456 --> 00:12:28,606 Erez: But it kind of goes with the territory. 288 00:12:28,636 --> 00:12:31,416 Tisha: Maybe their eyes glazed over and they quickly changed the subject. 289 00:12:31,886 --> 00:12:31,926 [laughs] 290 00:12:31,926 --> 00:12:32,596 Erez: It was like, "Wait. 291 00:12:33,056 --> 00:12:34,316 You have a full podcast- 292 00:12:34,436 --> 00:12:34,506 Tisha: Right. 293 00:12:34,506 --> 00:12:36,186 ... Erez: about, about keyboards?" 294 00:12:36,226 --> 00:12:37,006 I was like, "No, no, no. 295 00:12:37,006 --> 00:12:38,216 It's not about the keyboards. 296 00:12:38,506 --> 00:12:39,936 That's too broad of a topic. 297 00:12:39,936 --> 00:12:42,193 It's about the switches inside, right?" 298 00:12:42,193 --> 00:12:42,808 [laughs] 299 00:12:43,423 --> 00:12:43,843 Tisha: [laughs] Right. 300 00:12:45,661 --> 00:12:49,101 Erez: Okay, so anything else we wanna say about the Gold? 301 00:12:49,571 --> 00:12:50,761 Tisha: I don't think so. 302 00:12:50,890 --> 00:12:52,460 I think that covers it pretty well. 303 00:12:52,470 --> 00:12:56,810 It's nice, kind of medium weight clicky switch. 304 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:00,490 Nice medium weight clicky Speed Switch. 305 00:13:00,790 --> 00:13:01,890 Erez: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 306 00:13:01,890 --> 00:13:02,032 Tisha: There you go. 307 00:13:02,032 --> 00:13:02,124 [laughs] 308 00:13:02,124 --> 00:13:02,308 Erez: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 309 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:04,050 Quite a mouthful, but yeah, I see that's- 310 00:13:04,140 --> 00:13:04,640 Tisha: Right. 311 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:05,510 ... Erez: very accurate. 312 00:13:06,590 --> 00:13:08,940 And so then Bronze or Thick Gold. 313 00:13:09,550 --> 00:13:10,010 Tisha: Right. 314 00:13:10,020 --> 00:13:11,870 So another clicky switch. 315 00:13:11,980 --> 00:13:25,540 The things that it has in common are that it's a Kailh Speed Switch and it's clicky, but the Thick Gold/Bronze is really, kind of stands on its own because it's extra clicky. 316 00:13:25,990 --> 00:13:26,030 [laughs] 317 00:13:26,730 --> 00:13:26,870 Erez: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 318 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:29,950 Tisha: It clicks both on the downstroke and the upstroke. 319 00:13:30,020 --> 00:13:31,890 So you get two little clicks per keystroke. 320 00:13:32,140 --> 00:13:34,542 Erez: That was so surprising to me when I first tested it. 321 00:13:34,542 --> 00:13:36,430 I was like, "Wait, is that really what I'm hearing?" 322 00:13:36,500 --> 00:13:36,850 Tisha: Right. 323 00:13:37,540 --> 00:13:39,950 Erez: That's, it's, to me, that's awesome. 324 00:13:39,950 --> 00:13:41,990 Like, that's a very fundamental difference. 325 00:13:42,150 --> 00:13:44,370 That's actually not a subtle thing because it- 326 00:13:44,420 --> 00:13:44,640 Tisha: Right. 327 00:13:44,870 --> 00:13:47,910 ... Erez: it makes it sound as though you're typing twice as fast. 328 00:13:48,670 --> 00:13:49,610 Tisha: [laughs] Right, yeah. 329 00:13:49,726 --> 00:13:50,866 Erez: It's kind of awesome. 330 00:13:51,006 --> 00:13:51,306 Tisha: Right. 331 00:13:51,536 --> 00:13:56,506 So, if you're a fast typer it's, like it's a lot of sound. 332 00:13:56,666 --> 00:13:56,706 [laughs] 333 00:13:57,156 --> 00:13:57,566 Erez: Oh, yeah. 334 00:13:58,036 --> 00:13:58,346 Tisha: It's not- 335 00:13:58,346 --> 00:13:58,442 Erez: Oh, yeah. 336 00:13:58,442 --> 00:14:00,056 Tisha: It's not a, like a super loud click. 337 00:14:00,056 --> 00:14:00,976 It's just a lot of sound. 338 00:14:01,426 --> 00:14:01,818 Erez: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 339 00:14:01,818 --> 00:14:01,830 Tisha: Yeah. 340 00:14:01,830 --> 00:14:05,486 Erez: And the downstroke and the upstroke clicks are subtly different, right? 341 00:14:05,486 --> 00:14:06,466 It's not the same click. 342 00:14:06,466 --> 00:14:08,146 It sounds a bit different, down and up. 343 00:14:08,335 --> 00:14:08,365 Tisha: Right. 344 00:14:08,375 --> 00:14:09,485 Yeah, the up is a little... 345 00:14:10,985 --> 00:14:15,865 The downstroke is the, the main click and the upstroke is almost like an echo. 346 00:14:16,355 --> 00:14:18,015 Erez: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 347 00:14:18,015 --> 00:14:18,085 That's cool. 348 00:14:18,535 --> 00:14:18,885 Tisha: Yeah. 349 00:14:19,222 --> 00:14:31,312 Otherwise it is, I would say, a little lighter feeling than the Gold with an even gentler feeling, tactile bump, like tac- tactil- tactility... 350 00:14:32,332 --> 00:14:32,572 What? 351 00:14:32,582 --> 00:14:34,482 Tactile-ness-wise. 352 00:14:35,152 --> 00:14:36,612 [laughs] It's fairly gentle. 353 00:14:36,702 --> 00:14:38,412 It's not a, it's not a big bump. 354 00:14:39,232 --> 00:14:42,462 Erez: So you've got a lot of oomph, a lot of noise and kind of feedback- 355 00:14:42,662 --> 00:14:43,032 Tisha: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 356 00:14:43,032 --> 00:14:45,618 ... Erez: for not a ton of input from your side. 357 00:14:45,648 --> 00:14:48,398 Like you don't have to like really push hard to get that sound out. 358 00:14:48,398 --> 00:14:48,958 You're just- 359 00:14:49,968 --> 00:14:49,998 Tisha: Right. 360 00:14:50,008 --> 00:14:54,068 Erez: Yeah, you kind of type gently and get a whole click fiesta- 361 00:14:54,348 --> 00:14:54,388 Tisha: [laughs] 362 00:14:54,948 --> 00:14:55,118 ... Erez: on the keyboard. 363 00:14:55,248 --> 00:14:56,098 Tisha: Right, exactly. 364 00:14:56,568 --> 00:15:15,155 And I would say it is a slightly, just very slightly higher pitched click than the Gold, probably sitting between the Gold and Blue as far as click, pitch [laughs] goes, and maybe just a touch softer sounding. 365 00:15:16,345 --> 00:15:24,344 So overall I would say it's a gentler, softer switch than Kailh Gold, but with more clicks. 366 00:15:24,484 --> 00:15:24,524 [laughs] 367 00:15:25,284 --> 00:15:25,794 Erez: Right. 368 00:15:26,414 --> 00:15:27,134 Really interesting. 369 00:15:27,184 --> 00:15:31,904 I really enjoyed, back when I was using a clicky switch, I really enjoyed the Thick Gold. 370 00:15:31,904 --> 00:15:34,354 I used it for a good year or more- 371 00:15:34,474 --> 00:15:35,004 Tisha: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 372 00:15:35,234 --> 00:15:37,784 ... Erez: and I never thought of it being gentle, but it is. 373 00:15:37,784 --> 00:15:39,594 It's actually easy to type on. 374 00:15:39,984 --> 00:15:40,014 Tisha: Right. 375 00:15:40,014 --> 00:15:46,924 Erez: Which I think, again, is part of why I like, the Silver so much, going back to the Silver because you don't have to work hard. 376 00:15:46,924 --> 00:15:50,884 You just kind of type and, and it's easier for me to get into flow there. 377 00:15:51,174 --> 00:15:58,134 And some people say that clicky switches help them get into a state of flow, kind of help, I don't know- 378 00:15:58,354 --> 00:15:58,764 Tisha: Sure. 379 00:15:58,774 --> 00:16:01,594 ... Erez: create a soundscape of productivity. 380 00:16:01,634 --> 00:16:02,004 I don't know. 381 00:16:02,004 --> 00:16:02,404 As you're 382 00:16:02,844 --> 00:16:03,554 Tisha: [laughs] Right, yeah. 383 00:16:03,564 --> 00:16:04,524 ... Erez: getting your thoughts out. 384 00:16:04,964 --> 00:16:08,124 And I think maybe this combo of, yes, it's super clicky. 385 00:16:08,444 --> 00:16:14,134 It makes a lot of sound, like you say, but it doesn't require too, too much effort to actuate. 386 00:16:14,964 --> 00:16:17,494 That sounds like an interesting combination in terms of flow. 387 00:16:18,334 --> 00:16:19,214 Tisha: Right, yeah. 388 00:16:19,214 --> 00:16:22,924 I think it can, it could be almost like a white noise generator. 389 00:16:23,634 --> 00:16:24,369 Erez: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 390 00:16:24,774 --> 00:16:34,761 Tisha: If you're typing fairly quickly and yeah, so you've just got this almost background noise because it's not super loud as far as clicky switches go. 391 00:16:34,801 --> 00:16:35,171 Yeah. 392 00:16:35,821 --> 00:16:46,234 The way I sometimes describe it, if you're a particularly fast typist, that it's kind of got this dot matrix printer a few rooms away sound. 393 00:16:47,116 --> 00:16:47,156 [ laughs] 394 00:16:47,156 --> 00:16:47,446 Erez: I love that. 395 00:16:47,776 --> 00:16:51,346 Tisha: Now, you know, again, showing my age, I don't know how many... 396 00:16:52,179 --> 00:16:55,519 [ laughs] Some people are going to know what I'm talking about firsthand and some people aren't. 397 00:16:55,519 --> 00:16:55,789 [laughs] 398 00:16:55,789 --> 00:16:56,059 Erez: Yeah. 399 00:16:56,329 --> 00:16:58,369 I mean, I had one, but, you know- 400 00:16:58,369 --> 00:16:58,374 Tisha: [laughs] 401 00:16:58,374 --> 00:17:01,319 ... Erez: I mainly remember the perforated papers on the sides. 402 00:17:01,319 --> 00:17:01,959 I loved those. 403 00:17:01,979 --> 00:17:02,309 Tisha: Right. 404 00:17:02,459 --> 00:17:03,229 Yeah, me too. 405 00:17:03,229 --> 00:17:03,439 [laughs] 406 00:17:03,439 --> 00:17:05,084 Erez: That was so cool to just kind of... 407 00:17:05,084 --> 00:17:06,659 It was like, it was, it was great. 408 00:17:08,419 --> 00:17:08,649 Tisha: [laughs] Oh. 409 00:17:08,649 --> 00:17:11,229 Erez: I'd make long, long strips of those perforations. 410 00:17:11,229 --> 00:17:11,234 Tisha: [laughs] 411 00:17:11,234 --> 00:17:11,749 Erez: It was great. 412 00:17:12,279 --> 00:17:13,569 Tisha: [laughs] Yeah. 413 00:17:13,569 --> 00:17:16,279 Erez: And the paper size wasn't even standard on ours, anyway. 414 00:17:16,279 --> 00:17:17,909 It wasn't like A4 letter. 415 00:17:17,909 --> 00:17:19,409 It was just this weird size. 416 00:17:19,409 --> 00:17:19,634 I don't know. 417 00:17:19,634 --> 00:17:20,389 It was cool. 418 00:17:20,673 --> 00:17:20,833 Tisha: Yeah. 419 00:17:21,183 --> 00:17:21,623 I, that's... 420 00:17:22,373 --> 00:17:25,083 [laughs] I think mine probably was also an, an odd size. 421 00:17:25,083 --> 00:17:25,833 I don't... 422 00:17:25,833 --> 00:17:27,043 Yeah, I don't know. 423 00:17:27,906 --> 00:17:28,366 Erez: Awesome. 424 00:17:28,696 --> 00:17:38,437 So I guess what we always say about clicky switches, right, and especially in the context of flow and stuff, I guess it's flow for the typist. 425 00:17:38,587 --> 00:17:38,627 [laughs] 426 00:17:38,797 --> 00:17:39,367 Tisha: Right. 427 00:17:39,407 --> 00:17:41,927 Erez: They're going to be fairly disruptive to a- 428 00:17:42,337 --> 00:17:42,827 Tisha: Right. 429 00:17:42,827 --> 00:17:44,227 ... Erez: a lot of people in the room, I think, right? 430 00:17:44,437 --> 00:17:45,487 Tisha: Yeah, yeah. 431 00:17:45,537 --> 00:17:52,797 Before buying a keyboard [laughs] with clicky switches or changing out your switches for something clicky, you might want to check. 432 00:17:52,807 --> 00:18:00,394 If you have an office mate or a housemate, you might want to check with them [laughs] and see what they think about typing noise. 433 00:18:00,994 --> 00:18:01,544 Let's see. 434 00:18:01,544 --> 00:18:04,614 So I'm gonna, I'm gonna put the mic back down, uh, here and... 435 00:18:07,275 --> 00:18:08,285 So that's the Thick Gold. 436 00:18:08,601 --> 00:18:08,971 Erez: Mm-hmm.[affirmative]. 437 00:18:09,491 --> 00:18:10,361 I wouldn't mind that. 438 00:18:10,391 --> 00:18:11,701 I don't know, but I like typing. 439 00:18:11,731 --> 00:18:12,231 Tisha: Right. 440 00:18:12,301 --> 00:18:14,361 In a way, I think... 441 00:18:14,711 --> 00:18:27,747 I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to describe this very well, but it's almost more like one continuous sound than the discrete tap, tap, tap of other clicky switches. 442 00:18:28,037 --> 00:18:28,337 Erez: Yes. 443 00:18:28,677 --> 00:18:37,743 Tisha: Because the, because they're so close together, that it's almost more like a, kind of a white noise or kind of a static noise than, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap. 444 00:18:38,043 --> 00:18:38,253 Erez: Yup. 445 00:18:38,513 --> 00:18:39,913 Yeah, totally, totally. 446 00:18:40,063 --> 00:18:44,833 You know, this reminds me of a Mac app I've seen a few weeks ago I think. 447 00:18:44,843 --> 00:18:50,603 It's an app that you can install on your Mac, and then it makes your keyboard click in your headphones. 448 00:18:51,013 --> 00:18:51,513 Tisha: Oh. 449 00:18:51,523 --> 00:18:52,463 [laughs] Uh-huh [affirmative]. 450 00:18:52,473 --> 00:18:57,903 Erez: So it turns your laptop keyboard into a clicky keyboard, and it's low latency enough that I think it's pretty convincing. 451 00:18:58,046 --> 00:18:59,096 But it's only for you. 452 00:18:59,196 --> 00:19:01,156 So it's a fun solution for that, I guess. 453 00:19:01,416 --> 00:19:01,656 Tisha: Right. 454 00:19:01,696 --> 00:19:02,436 That's interesting. 455 00:19:02,456 --> 00:19:07,926 That would be, I think that would be kind of an odd, like, kind of the cognitive dissonance- 456 00:19:08,136 --> 00:19:08,316 Erez: Right. 457 00:19:08,316 --> 00:19:17,892 ... Tisha: where you've got this very flat, shallow Mac keyboard, you know, with the little chiclet keys that barely press down at all, and then click, click, click in your ears. 458 00:19:17,902 --> 00:19:18,102 [laughs] 459 00:19:18,192 --> 00:19:18,792 Erez: Right. 460 00:19:18,792 --> 00:19:20,502 Like these massive thunks. 461 00:19:20,612 --> 00:19:20,902 I don't know. 462 00:19:20,902 --> 00:19:21,222 When I- 463 00:19:21,222 --> 00:19:21,362 Tisha: [laughs] 464 00:19:21,362 --> 00:19:23,102 ... Erez: actually tried it and it wasn't bad, actually. 465 00:19:23,112 --> 00:19:30,042 It wasn't like big thunks, but yeah, if you use like the sound of like, you know, a big resonant, boy, that'll be, that'll be really weird, yeah. 466 00:19:30,042 --> 00:19:30,752 Tisha: [laughs] Yeah. 467 00:19:30,872 --> 00:19:31,822 But interesting, yeah. 468 00:19:31,822 --> 00:19:35,402 Uh, so if you like that sort of thing, then yeah. 469 00:19:35,412 --> 00:19:41,072 I think that one of these, one of the Kailh Gold switches might be right up your alley. 470 00:19:41,712 --> 00:19:55,390 The Gold for something a little louder and a little firmer, uh, the Thick Gold/Bronze for something a little gentler, but noisier, but not in a loudness sense, [laughs] if that makes sense. 471 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:57,030 Erez: That makes a lot of sense, actually. 472 00:19:57,050 --> 00:19:57,390 Yeah. 473 00:19:57,390 --> 00:19:57,537 Tisha: Yeah. 474 00:19:57,537 --> 00:20:01,983 Erez: I mean, I have to say that is not a distinction I had in my mind before you said it- 475 00:20:01,983 --> 00:20:01,990 Tisha: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 476 00:20:01,990 --> 00:20:03,620 ... Erez: so, so that's a great summary. 477 00:20:03,630 --> 00:20:05,970 I think it's a really good way to look at these both. 478 00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:06,700 Tisha: Right. 479 00:20:06,850 --> 00:20:16,854 Yeah, I think we tend to use the term noisy to mean loud, but in this case noisiness and volume are kind of two different dimensions here. 480 00:20:17,724 --> 00:20:18,484 [laughs] Yeah. 481 00:20:18,974 --> 00:20:22,234 They're both fun switches for the typist. 482 00:20:23,024 --> 00:20:23,084 [laughs] 483 00:20:23,304 --> 00:20:23,434 Erez: Yeah. 484 00:20:23,794 --> 00:20:29,244 Tisha: They're both Speed Switches, so that's a pro or con depending on your tastes. 485 00:20:29,501 --> 00:20:31,241 Erez: And use case, I would say, too, right? 486 00:20:31,241 --> 00:20:31,541 Because- 487 00:20:31,821 --> 00:20:31,841 Tisha: Yeah. 488 00:20:31,851 --> 00:20:40,851 ... Erez: Speed Switches were originally aimed, I think, at the gamers and like first person shooter type of scenarios where you have to really spam the keyboard sometimes and things like that. 489 00:20:41,156 --> 00:20:41,446 Tisha: Right. 490 00:20:41,566 --> 00:20:42,286 Erez: I think, no? 491 00:20:42,466 --> 00:20:42,796 Tisha: Right. 492 00:20:42,946 --> 00:20:44,186 Yeah, I think so, too. 493 00:20:44,296 --> 00:20:53,849 I think that they've also kind of broken out of that mold and there are plenty of people who aren't gamers maybe at all, or only just casually or something, who still like these switches just for typing- 494 00:20:53,859 --> 00:20:54,959 Erez: Oh, totally. 495 00:20:55,089 --> 00:20:56,149 ... Tisha: coding or typing or whatever, yeah. 496 00:20:56,389 --> 00:20:56,639 Erez: Yeah. 497 00:20:56,699 --> 00:21:01,429 Tisha: Yeah, if you're a light touch typer, I think especially the Speed Switches may appeal. 498 00:21:01,539 --> 00:21:02,079 Erez: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 499 00:21:02,289 --> 00:21:02,559 Tisha: Yeah. 500 00:21:03,159 --> 00:21:03,519 Erez: Cool. 501 00:21:03,949 --> 00:21:04,599 Thank you very much. 502 00:21:04,929 --> 00:21:05,209 Tisha: Sure. 503 00:21:05,219 --> 00:21:05,689 Thank you. 504 00:21:05,792 --> 00:21:06,452 Erez: Talk to you soon. 505 00:21:06,622 --> 00:21:06,852 Tisha: Yep.