Clear

Hello, and welcome to Tisha Talks Switches. I'm Erez from ZSA, and with me here today is Tisha, our resident switch expert and Support Lead. How are things, Tisha?

Hi, there. Uh, pretty good. Kind of rainy here around Chicago, but, oh, it's okay. At least it's not a million degrees outside.

I hear, I hear. Here it's cloudy in southern Ontario, but cloudy but not cool. Like I can walk around with a t-shirt, so it's nice.

Oh. [laughs] Yeah, it doesn't sound nice to me. [laughs]

It's not like hot, but it's-

Right.

perfect weather. It's like in the 20s I think. It's really nice.

Okay. Um, a little-

Celsius that is.

Right. Yeah, a little bit of mental math here. Okay, okay.

[laughs]

I think that I've determined that I really like the upper teens.

Hm. Oh, that's, that's chilly, yeah.

It's co- it's cool, right. But, and I also like the upper teens Fahrenheit because I like actual cold, but... [ laughs]

That's funny. I was talking to an Israeli relative recently and they were somewhere and it was, I think, 17 Celsius or something. They're like, "Wow, it's really cold."

[laughs]

Okay. Okay, cool, cool.

Right. I have some relatives in California and, uh, you know, I know we have a lot of listeners who use Celsius and my mental conversion is not great, so if I say, you know, it's in the 60s Fahrenheit. So let's say less than 20 Celsius probably, right?

Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

"Oh, and we had to wear coats, so it was so cold. [crosstalk]

[laughs] Right, right.

Like dude, that is... [laughs] that's [crosstalk]

But the thing is- like when you, when you're in that climate, it really does feel that way because your body gets used to whatever, you know, temperature it's in, right? So it, it really 17 Celsius, it really feels cold all of the sudden, you know what I mean?

[laughs]

It, it really does.

Totally. Right, right. But, and if you're in the Midwest, and I think the same goes for you know, the middle of Canada where you've got these extremes, I don't know. You don't really get used to anything in particular 'cause it's hot, hot, hot in the summer, and cold, cold, cold in the winter.

That's true.

Everything in between.

Yeah, I love that about southern Ontario. Like the, the seasons are real.

Right. [laughs]

Like exactly. Like summer is summer and winter is winter. It's very nice.

Right. [ laughs]

Cool. So we are gathered here today to talk about Cherry MX Clear-

Yeah.

which is a pretty exotic switch as these things go, I think, right?

Yeah, it is. It's almost a specialty switch- [laughs]

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

I guess, I would call it. It's kinda hard to call anything that Cherry makes specialty 'cause I guess that would be like calling something that Google offered specialty or something [laughs] Microsoft offered spe... You know, but it's not a Honda Civic.

Yeah, yeah. To be fair, Google does offer some really niche and weird stuff. Like ever hear of AppSheet or like stuff like that? I think that's what they call it. They have these weird products that like five people use and then they discontinue them.

[laughs]

So actually Google does-

[crosstalk]

does do like niche stuff I think.

Right. Yeah, sure. Years ago they had Google Reader which I really liked, and so [crosstalk]

That was not niche! That was great and they should have kept it.

[laughs]

Like that, I... That was a terrible decision to stop that.

Right.

That was a great product.

I mean, to hear them talk about it, it was niche. [inaudible]. No one uses this. We're gonna discontinue, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Yeah.

So, okay.

[laughs]

Uh, for, for this, this is kinda one of my... I don't know. What's the opposite of pet peeve or the other side of the coin? This is kind of one of my little things. After a bunch of searching for something that would replace Google Reader, and I know there are a bunch of things that kind of came into fill that vacated space, I landed on Inoreader. It's I-N-O reader.

No way. I use that, too.

Do you?

That's what I use.

Right, which I... And I've been using it for years now, so like this is my little plug. I love this. I love Inoreader. I pay for their lowest tier, not because I use any of their features but just because, because I could totally get by with free. I'm not a [crosstalk]

Yeah, me, me too. That's, that's so funny.

[laughs]

I, I didn't know you used that. That's, that's my RSS reader of choice, and I pay for their lowest tier, too, yeah, for the same reason.

Right. Not a power user, but I just like it so much. [laughs]

And their mobile app is pretty good, too. I mean, it's, it's just a good, good service.

Right, it is, yeah. I don't use that very much, but a little bit. So yeah, if there's anyone still, after all these years, and I can understand why you might, pining for Google Reader, check out Inoreader. [laughs]

It works, totally.

Right, yeah. So that has nothing to do with switches.

[laughs]

But anyway. [laughs]

Right, so back to MX Clear which is an odd duck.

A little bit.

Wh- why is it a weird switch?

I guess, I don't really know because it's not weird to use. It's just not, it's one of those that isn't super popular, you know? It's not a Cherry MX Brown or a Kailh Silver or something like that. But the people who like it, really like it.

Right.

Maybe one of the reasons that there's less use is that there is not an RGB version.

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

So that does limit it some.

Yeah, and you can't get it on a Moonlander-

Right.

or a Planck EZ Glow or ErgoDox EZ Glow. Yeah.

Right, right. Which I always think is funny that they have this switch called Clear and it's-

[laughs]

a very opaque switch. [laughs]

Right. It, it should be the Cherry MX Opaque.

Right. [laughs] It's like, come on guys.

[laughs]

It is, it's heavier. So it does have, hm, a little bit, although this isn't super accurate, but it's a little bit like a heavier version of Cherry MX Brown, so it's tactile. And it's got that kind of rounded feeling tactile bump, not a sharp crisp one, but kind of a nice little round hump. [laughs]

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Yeah, a little heavier than the Cherry MX Brown, and kind of to go along with that, springier feeling. You can feel, I think the spring push back against your fingers a little more distinctly than with the Brown.

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Like it's not like heavy sluggish feeling, but, you feel a little more pushback.

So in a sense it's more tactile, tactile key. Like the tactility is like... It has more oomph to it like in terms of like the, how tactile it is?

Somewhat, although it's a very round tactility, so I know that some people when they say more tactile they mean sharper, firmer, almost like it almost stops you. It almost stops the downward motion of your finger. This is-

And then when it lets go, what they mean is-

Right.

it can almost stops them, then when it lets go, it lets go suddenly like a sharp drop in the, in the curve.

Right.

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

It's like this snap.

Yep.

It's like stretching a rubber band and then letting it go.

Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

This isn't like that. This is... I don't know if I have an analogy. Maybe a little bit more like a roller coaster where you kind of go up the hill and then there's a rounded top before you go back down.

I think the "like a roller coaster" is the most exciting description of a keyswitch-

[laughs]

we've had so far ever, like in all the episodes.

Maybe. [laughs] Maybe so.

So that's amazing.

Right. That might be overselling the excited-ness-

Right.

exciting-ness of it. [laughs]

Like, "Woo! I'm tapping my space bar."

[laughs]

Like that, that's awesome.

Right. But, and also there isn't... The tactile bump is very high on the Clear, so you don't get a bit of easy press, and then hard press, and then easy again. On the Clears it's more kind of firmer at the top, easier at the bottom.

Oh.

It's got a high tactile bump.

That's interesting. That's, that's significant, because... And, and wait. So the tactile bump there, is that before it actuates?

The start of it is before because of how high the bump is. Probably the peak, and I guess I should have looked up a force curve, but I did not. [laughs] But the peak of force required probably is about the same time as the actuation.

So we don't get too too many false actuations there.

If the switch is normal, no.

Ah, there. You, you touched actually-

[laughs]

on something really interesting about the Clears, which is that they can be super inconsistent, right?

Yeah. I would say it's not common, but it's not unheard of that, for some reason, you know, I don't know what specifically the problem is, but sometimes you get a batch of Clears and a few or several switches out of that batch... like you barely touch them you'll actuate.

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

It's like as soon as there's any pressure at all. When it's happened with our keyboards it'd be... You know, so a keyboard full let's say between 72 and 76... Well, no, 76, 'cause it's only the ErgoDox not Glow, [ laughs] 10 or fewer.

And then we replace them, of course. It'd still be covered.

We will, right. [crosstalk]

But it's still annoying when it happens. That's-

Right, it's-

It's kinda hard to catch in QC.

Exactly, yeah. Because, you know, you press the key and it works.

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

It's just that then maybe you might find you accidentally bumped a key, and then it also works when you don't want it to. [laughs]

Yeah, it's the type of thing you notice when you actually use the keyboard, which we don't want QC to actually, you know, [laughs] like sit down-

Right.

for hours with people's keyboards and work with them, right? So it's hard to catch.

Right. So I don't wanna give the impression that this is something that, that you should expect to happen because it's not a high percentage, but it is higher than... You know, the other switches we carry, it's pretty rare that any of them have problems. And if it is, it's like one switch in a keyboard.

Right.

It's like, "Oh, this one switch is going kinda funny." So on one hand, it's rare, but on the other hand, it's, you know, it happened enough times that it's a pattern. It's like, "Oh, yeah-

Yeah.

this sometimes happens with these."

Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Mm-hmm [affirmative]. For sure.

Yeah.

Yeah, again, like we, we cover it, but it's, I guess it's good to know.

Right. If you do get a keyboard with the Cherry MX Clear switches and some of them seem like super duper sensitive, it's not, it's not just you. It's not the keyboard. It's not your computer, you know? But chances are really good that it won't be the case.

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Yeah. I don't have numbers or anything. Like I don't have a percentage. It's just, it's small.

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Um-

I mean, it's, I guess it's part of how we work. It's a lot of anecdotal stuff. We just talk to people. We're not so big on like analytics [laughs] and whatever. We just talk to people, and it's something we've noticed, right, just in, in the course of our work you think, right?

Right, right. So I would say if you like the feel, kind of the general feel of Cherry MX Brown but you want something a little heavier, a little firmer, not like sharp feeling, not snappy, then you might like Cherry MX Clear. But again, Cherry doesn't even make an RGB version, so it's a no-go for Moonlander or a ErgoDox EZ Glow or Planck EZ Glow.

So this kind of begs the question. Let's say I'm thinking of-

[laughs]

maybe buying a board, maybe, maybe buying even an ErgoDox EZ. I say even because, you know, I'm not even moving from a Moonlander, but I'm already set on an ErgoDox EZ-

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

and I find the MX Clear interesting. Is it worth it? Like would you say like it's a very personal decision, I guess. Like do I want RGB or like is MX Clear so special that it's worth losing the lighting for and just going with a non-Glow just to get MX Clear?

Yeah, that's hard to say for any individual. I will say that the people who really like the MX Clears, for some of them, yes, it is worth it. Like they like the switch so much, that, you know, they specifically order their keyboard with it. It's okay that I don't get the backlighting. It's one of things I guess you don't know until you try it. [laughs]

Right. This is where a, a key tester comes in I guess.

Yeah, exactly. And-

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

but I also kind of... Well, this is the... It's the case for any sort of key tester. You get a nice sampling of what it feels like, but typing on a keyboard full of one type of switch is different.

Absolutely. Because you also see the output on your screen, so the actuation when you're just using a passive test or just, you know, a, like a piece of plastic with switches stuck into it, you don't get any sense of when the key actuates, which makes a tremendous difference in use I find.

Right.

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Right, I, I think for a switch like this, it's kind of harder to give specific recommendations. Like, you know, oh, if you like "Foo", then you'll like this switch. Or, you know, you should give it a try because it's popular. I mean, well, it's not popular. It's prized by the people who like it, [laughs] I guess.

Right.

I wouldn't say that people dislike it. It's just kinda, just not a generally popular switch.

Although, you know, you just got me thinking. As long as we're talking niche and whatnot-

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

you can also mod it, theoretically, right? I mean, you could get a bunch of Cherry MX Clears and, and take the housing off another RGB Cherry switch and swap out the housings, no?

Uh, yeah. I guess theoretically you could. I don't know, you know, the spring will be a big part of it. I don't know if you would miss out on other things, though. I'm not great with sort of mechanical- [laughs]

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

I don't know the reasoning.

I mean, it's something to try, yeah. I mean-

Yeah. Uh, and I imagine, and like certainly people have tried this.

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

So-

Yeah. It can, you can probably find people who did this on Reddit and whatnot.

Yeah, totally. This is a harder switch to talk about, I guess, because it's a little, like it's almost a little bit of an enigma, [laughs] you know?

Which, on the other hand, is kind of why we decided to, to create Tisha Talks Switches because it's one of those things that there's a lot around it, and just like three numbers and a graph don't really tell the story there I, I find.

Right, right. I know, you know, a lot of people who want kind of a heavier more tactile switch, uh, tend to gravitate toward some of the custom Kailh, like Kailh Box Royal or Navy, which is clicky. I believe Jade is also clicky. A lot of times when people are looking for more tactile, that's what they're looking for, firmer, sharper.

And those are all, I mean, they're aftermarket in the sense you don't get them from us, but they are RGB friendly.

Right.

But, let's say I'm listening to this and I'm thinking like, for me, I care about RGB or I want the Moonlander specifically, for example. But I like I'm hearing about the MX Clear. What are my options? What should I be looking at? An MX Brown or...

That is tough. Yeah, maybe MX Brown if you're okay with something that's not so heavy. But if what you're looking for is that rounded tactile bump, then MX Brown. Or maybe Kailh Copper-

Hm.

which also has a rounded sort of gentle, and I think somewhat higher tactile bump. That's a Speed Switch, so the actuation happens just before the bump. Yeah, I think out of the RGB switches we have, those are what I'd recommend trying. And then if you're looking for something with a firmer tactile bump but not sharp, then the ZealPC Zealios might be something to look at-

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

which is another third party switch. They... Yeah, they are sort of more strongly tactile switches, but not sharp and they come in a variety of weights.

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

You can choose a, kind of lighter or medium or heavier switches. And they are all RGB compatible. I think all ZealPC switches are RGB. Yeah.

Right. Awesome. Great. Is there anything else we wanna say about Cherry MX Clear?

I think the only other thing, and maybe it's not even helpful [laughs] to say this, but this is an exception to the rule. In general, the color of the switch, tells you some characteristics of the switch regardless of who makes it.

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Not the case for Clear. The o... [laughs] There is a GATERON Clear switch. It's a 100% completely different. [laughs]

Right.

So if you like what you've been hearing about Cherry MX Clear and you see GATERON Clear and think maybe that's gonna be similar, it's not at all. It's a very, very light linear switch rated at even lower force than Kailh Silver.

Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

You know, a tiny bit, but, yeah. So the, I guess that means [laughs] Cherry MX Clear is at least somewhat unique-

Mm-hmm [affirmative].

and that other switches named Clear are probably not similar.

[laughs] Makes sense.

[laughs]

Awesome. Well, thank you very much. This was very interesting.

Okay.

This is, this is one switch... I, I did not think this switch would get described as a roller coaster, so definitely-

[laughs]

definitely interesting.

Right, yeah. I'm not sure... yeah, don't take that literally. [laughs]

[laughs] All right, thank you very much, Tisha.

Okay, sure. Thanks.

Bye.

Bye-bye.