Black

Hello, and welcome to Tisha Talk Switches. 2 00:00:07,450 --> 00:00:13,979 I'm Erez from ZSA and with me here today is Tisha, our resident switch expert and support lead. 3 00:00:14,220 --> 00:00:15,240 How are you today? 4 00:00:15,610 --> 00:00:16,760 Tisha: Hi, I'm doing okay. 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:17,230 How are you? 6 00:00:17,860 --> 00:00:18,240 Erez: Good. 7 00:00:18,300 --> 00:00:26,169 It is hot and we are recording this on a Wednesday that for some reason keeps feeling like a Monday to me. 8 00:00:27,830 --> 00:00:28,849 Other than that, I'm fine. 9 00:00:29,109 --> 00:00:29,149 [laughs]. 10 00:00:29,770 --> 00:00:29,800 Tisha: Right. 11 00:00:31,689 --> 00:00:36,010 I've had a problem lately with Tuesdays where I think Tuesday is Wednesday. 12 00:00:36,570 --> 00:00:37,720 I don't, yeah, I don't know. 13 00:00:38,180 --> 00:00:40,580 Erez: Wednesday is like a more chill day somehow. 14 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:46,080 Like they say hump day and the middle of the week, but I don't know, I would take Wednesday over Monday anytime. 15 00:00:46,220 --> 00:00:46,900 Tisha: Well, sure. 16 00:00:48,860 --> 00:00:48,900 [laughs] 17 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:49,580 Erez: So, yeah. 18 00:00:49,670 --> 00:00:50,210 All right. 19 00:00:50,300 --> 00:00:52,470 So Black switches. 20 00:00:52,820 --> 00:00:53,180 Tisha: Yeah. 21 00:00:53,293 --> 00:00:54,533 Erez: What are we going to talk about today? 22 00:00:55,033 --> 00:00:58,233 Tisha: Well, we carry two types of Black switches. 23 00:00:58,333 --> 00:01:01,223 You'll probably have seen a pattern by now. 24 00:01:01,263 --> 00:01:03,895 We carry a Cherry and a Kailh version. 25 00:01:04,465 --> 00:01:05,955 They're very similar to each other. 26 00:01:06,125 --> 00:01:17,765 Like, in my opinion, obviously, as I say over and over again, obviously this is kind of all in my opinion, but to me, they feel very similar to each other. 27 00:01:17,825 --> 00:01:24,505 They're closer even than a lot of the other Kailh-Cherry pairs. 28 00:01:24,725 --> 00:01:25,205 Erez: All right. 29 00:01:25,439 --> 00:01:26,349 And they're linear? 30 00:01:26,799 --> 00:01:27,049 Tisha: Yup. 31 00:01:27,089 --> 00:01:31,962 They are linear and they're heavy linear switches, heavy-ish, they're not extreme. 32 00:01:32,135 --> 00:01:33,815 Erez: So quite different from the Silvers? 33 00:01:34,305 --> 00:01:35,745 Tisha: Yes, very much so. 34 00:01:36,205 --> 00:01:36,585 Erez: Yeah. 35 00:01:36,595 --> 00:01:48,815 I actually dug up an MX Black keyboard from my storage and I'm just typing on it with one hand, with my right hand, and with the left I'm typing on Silver. 36 00:01:49,575 --> 00:01:52,075 It's noticeably firmer actually. 37 00:01:53,305 --> 00:01:53,755 Tisha: Right. 38 00:01:53,755 --> 00:01:57,065 And Silver is like your every day switch, right? 39 00:01:57,175 --> 00:01:57,565 Yeah. 40 00:01:57,675 --> 00:01:58,965 That's a big difference. 41 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:06,088 If you just look at the numbers, it looks like the difference might not be that big, but to your fingers, they feel a big difference. 42 00:02:06,778 --> 00:02:07,178 Erez: Right. 43 00:02:07,228 --> 00:02:13,418 Like extrapolated over thousands and thousands of keystrokes per day, it starts making a difference. 44 00:02:14,278 --> 00:02:14,648 Tisha: Right. 45 00:02:15,108 --> 00:02:15,428 Yeah. 46 00:02:15,718 --> 00:02:24,028 Erez: I guess I ask this as a Silver user, why would someone go for a heavier switch, a heavier linear switch? 47 00:02:24,115 --> 00:02:39,779 Tisha: Well, I think that if you already are like a heavy typer, if you kind of pound on your keyboard, then you might find it more satisfying to type on a heavier switch, something that pushes back on your fingers a little bit. 48 00:02:40,249 --> 00:02:49,329 And, I think anyway, that having more resistance might mean that you don't bottom out quite as hard. 49 00:02:49,579 --> 00:02:57,107 Might just make that impact a little softer because there's a little bit more in the way between the top of the switch and the bottom out. 50 00:02:57,707 --> 00:02:57,997 Erez: Right. 51 00:02:58,047 --> 00:03:00,467 Tisha: If that makes sense, maybe it doesn't make sense. 52 00:03:01,107 --> 00:03:04,747 Erez: So you're not as likely to mistype and you're not as likely to bottom out? 53 00:03:05,577 --> 00:03:19,553 Tisha: I think so, you know, obviously it depends kind of on your particular style but, if you are kind of a heavy typist and you're not prone to hand and finger fatigue so much, then you might like a heavier switch. 54 00:03:20,213 --> 00:03:24,166 I am a heavy, like I'm a keyboard pounder totally. 55 00:03:24,626 --> 00:03:26,576 I gravitate toward heavier switches. 56 00:03:26,646 --> 00:03:33,946 They have a real satisfying feel to me, but for typing on all day long, it can get a little tiring. 57 00:03:34,013 --> 00:03:34,583 Erez: Right. 58 00:03:34,983 --> 00:03:42,763 I guess if we think about, you know, a typical computer user, a keyboard is really the main physical interface. 59 00:03:42,763 --> 00:03:48,316 It's really, for me, at least it's the main single object I touch, I guess. 60 00:03:48,316 --> 00:03:51,406 Like, if you look at like, maybe my bed more, right? 61 00:03:51,406 --> 00:03:59,046 If I sleep at night, if you look at the number of hours, but like with my hands, certainly it's like the number one thing I interact with on a daily basis, right? 62 00:03:59,056 --> 00:04:00,866 Just in terms of sheer number of hours. 63 00:04:01,196 --> 00:04:01,556 Tisha: Sure. 64 00:04:01,716 --> 00:04:06,566 Erez: So the keyboard is the number one thing I touch when I work. 65 00:04:07,030 --> 00:04:14,740 And if I imagine an extreme example, let's say one of my keys was broken and would actuate twice or wouldn't actuate and whatever. 66 00:04:15,460 --> 00:04:18,770 I would probably get pretty aggravated trying to use that keyboard. 67 00:04:18,770 --> 00:04:23,160 I would get annoyed and I couldn't fix it or whatever, I'd be stuck with it. 68 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:25,680 So I would get more and more frustrated. 69 00:04:25,980 --> 00:04:33,810 And I'm pretty sure this frustration would kind of leak into whatever I'm doing, whatever I'm writing, emails, Slack, whatever, right? 70 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:34,270 Tisha: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 71 00:04:34,370 --> 00:04:36,950 Erez: It would be felt because my environment is frustrating. 72 00:04:37,530 --> 00:04:39,350 A big part of my environment is frustrating. 73 00:04:40,370 --> 00:04:50,800 Would you say that typing on a firm switch, like where you have to literally exert more force as you're working, like type, type, type. 74 00:04:51,730 --> 00:05:01,053 Do you think that can make a difference in the tone of your communications or anything like that or not? 75 00:05:02,153 --> 00:05:05,123 Tisha: That's a really good question. 76 00:05:05,263 --> 00:05:12,316 So I think that there are two different relationships there, or two different aspects to that relationship. 77 00:05:12,646 --> 00:05:29,562 And one is maybe what you describe that having to put more effort into using a tool that you very crucially rely on, having to put more effort into using that than normal, will be frustrating and may affect the rest of your work. 78 00:05:29,562 --> 00:05:30,572 I mean, that makes sense. 79 00:05:30,642 --> 00:05:46,133 Sure, and on the other side of the coin, I think that your state of mind, your mood, sometimes even the particular task will affect how you use the tool. 80 00:05:47,133 --> 00:05:55,727 So, I definitely notice differences in my typing depending on, I don't know, just depending on certain things. 81 00:05:55,987 --> 00:06:04,797 My typing becomes noisier, both when I'm frustrated and sometimes if I'm just kind of just really into the flow. 82 00:06:05,397 --> 00:06:08,347 And it's kind of faster and noisier. 83 00:06:09,077 --> 00:06:17,533 If I'm hesitant, if I'm kind of thinking pretty intently as I'm typing then it's a little softer. 84 00:06:17,642 --> 00:06:23,142 If I've just got a lot of words and they're coming out quickly and easily, it's probably noisier. 85 00:06:23,142 --> 00:06:25,652 I'm probably typing a little more firmly. 86 00:06:25,712 --> 00:06:37,492 I might've mentioned this before, I don't remember, but the last office job that I had, the walls between our offices weren't the most soundproof things that you can imagine. 87 00:06:37,962 --> 00:06:37,992 Erez: Right. 88 00:06:38,222 --> 00:06:54,042 Tisha: Also my desk was right up against a wall that I shared with the office next and the person on the other side of the wall told me that they could tell when I was annoyed because of the way that my typing sounded across the wall. 89 00:06:54,782 --> 00:06:54,972 Erez: Right. 90 00:06:56,002 --> 00:06:57,072 Tisha: So yeah. 91 00:06:57,462 --> 00:06:59,988 I think both depending on the person, obviously 92 00:07:00,075 --> 00:07:00,765 Erez: Yeah, I get it. 93 00:07:00,765 --> 00:07:02,265 I do see the appeal now. 94 00:07:02,265 --> 00:07:06,032 I get it because it's basically a keyboard that can take it. 95 00:07:06,162 --> 00:07:06,342 Right? 96 00:07:06,642 --> 00:07:11,582 A mechanical keyboard is a tactile and solid-feeling thing as it is when it's well-made. 97 00:07:11,852 --> 00:07:18,322 And so if you kind of pair that with a muscular key switch, you can really pound on it and it's fine. 98 00:07:18,332 --> 00:07:18,362 Tisha: Right. 99 00:07:19,082 --> 00:07:19,332 Erez: It's fine. 100 00:07:19,382 --> 00:07:27,562 It feels like there's an appropriate amount of feedback there perhaps, versus if I do that on a laptop keyboard, or even on the Kailh Silver, right? 101 00:07:27,562 --> 00:07:33,030 If I just go to town on those, it is not actually satisfying because of the force curve, I guess. 102 00:07:33,030 --> 00:07:36,990 Because like you max out on whatever it can take very very quickly. 103 00:07:37,500 --> 00:07:37,720 Tisha: Right. 104 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:47,020 Erez: And so it feels kind of flat and flimsy, and doesn't give you this kind of feedback, this kind of feeling that, you know, a push back essentially, right? 105 00:07:47,450 --> 00:07:47,850 Tisha: Right. 106 00:07:47,890 --> 00:07:53,820 I think it's maybe kind of like trying to drive or ride a bicycle in, in the wrong gear. 107 00:07:54,230 --> 00:07:56,100 Erez: Oh, I like that analogy. 108 00:07:56,710 --> 00:07:57,170 I see that. 109 00:07:57,170 --> 00:07:57,370 Tisha: Yeah. 110 00:07:57,910 --> 00:07:58,740 Erez: I see that. 111 00:07:58,780 --> 00:07:59,170 Yeah. 112 00:07:59,170 --> 00:08:05,320 Like when, when you're going downhill and you know, it's too high of a gear, I guess, so you're just spinning. 113 00:08:06,010 --> 00:08:06,370 Tisha: Right. 114 00:08:06,790 --> 00:08:07,160 Erez: Yeah. 115 00:08:07,310 --> 00:08:07,570 Tisha: Right. 116 00:08:07,570 --> 00:08:14,631 And you may feel like you're putting in a lot of effort but, you're not really getting anything back if that makes sense. 117 00:08:15,021 --> 00:08:15,431 Erez: Yeah. 118 00:08:15,741 --> 00:08:16,511 Cool, so- 119 00:08:16,511 --> 00:08:24,109 Tisha: So yeah, if you like I guess a heavy linear switch provides a different type of feedback. 120 00:08:24,149 --> 00:08:31,103 I mean, I hesitate to use the word tactile feedback because I don't want to confuse this with a tactile switch. 121 00:08:32,013 --> 00:08:33,253 But I can't think of a better word. 122 00:08:34,263 --> 00:08:34,433 Erez: Yeah. 123 00:08:34,568 --> 00:08:36,663 It is a form of t-, it's just not a bump, right? 124 00:08:36,663 --> 00:08:36,928 Tisha: Right. 125 00:08:37,138 --> 00:08:42,488 Erez: Really the, the accurate thing for a tactile switch would be a bumpy switch because all switches are tactile. 126 00:08:42,808 --> 00:08:43,068 Tisha: Right. 127 00:08:43,068 --> 00:08:43,628 Exactly. 128 00:08:44,228 --> 00:08:45,178 Erez: It just doesn't have a bump. 129 00:08:45,238 --> 00:08:45,528 Yeah. 130 00:08:45,788 --> 00:08:46,088 Tisha: Right. 131 00:08:46,098 --> 00:08:47,968 So it, it is a different type of feedback. 132 00:08:47,978 --> 00:08:57,811 And if that sounds appealing to you, some sort of feedback that's something that you feel, something that pushes back on your fingers a little bit, but not that discreet bump. 133 00:08:58,371 --> 00:09:14,496 Then you might like a heavier tactile, as opposed to something very light, like the Kailh Silver where, you know, if you just want to feel like your fingers are, I don't know, just kind of gliding over the keyboard, like you barely have to think about typing, and you're typing, then that's Kailh Silver. 134 00:09:14,496 --> 00:09:16,306 Kailh Silver is, you're barely thinking about it. 135 00:09:16,886 --> 00:09:19,286 A Black Switch is working your fingers a bit. 136 00:09:20,076 --> 00:09:20,606 Erez: Yeah. 137 00:09:21,426 --> 00:09:38,053 I guess another thing I will say, just from my own experience, when I am faced with, you know, a daunting task, like, I don't know, something really complicated or fiddly that I have to write or compose, then at least it's physically easy to type, you know what I mean? 138 00:09:38,166 --> 00:09:38,406 Tisha: Right. 139 00:09:38,436 --> 00:09:41,706 Erez: My background is in writing and I still write all the copy on our website. 140 00:09:41,706 --> 00:09:48,536 And so I'm very familiar with the blank page syndrome, you know, where you're looking at the screen, you're like, "Okay, how do I even get started?" 141 00:09:48,536 --> 00:09:48,816 Right? 142 00:09:48,816 --> 00:09:51,206 That's something that I work through on a daily basis. 143 00:09:51,716 --> 00:10:00,206 And so there is this very, for me, a very real barrier to the act of starting to type. 144 00:10:00,746 --> 00:10:05,586 And that's why personally, I prefer a lighter switch because then at least the action itself is easy. 145 00:10:05,586 --> 00:10:13,426 If it was physically hard or firmer to type on, to me, it feels like it would increase that barrier again, personally for me. 146 00:10:14,516 --> 00:10:14,876 Tisha: Sure. 147 00:10:14,876 --> 00:10:15,136 Yeah. 148 00:10:15,146 --> 00:10:18,166 It's like another thing that you have to put effort into. 149 00:10:18,246 --> 00:10:20,216 Erez: Yes, exactly, exactly. 150 00:10:20,776 --> 00:10:32,210 Tisha: Whereas I think that I like a firmer switch because it feels, I don't know, there's something about the effort that I like, which is kind of hard to explain. 151 00:10:32,290 --> 00:10:39,040 It sounds very cheesy and cliche to say, it feels productive, it makes you feel productive. 152 00:10:39,830 --> 00:10:49,248 But yeah, I don't know, maybe there's something to the thought of, at least I feel like I'm doing something, you know what I mean? 153 00:10:49,588 --> 00:10:49,998 Erez: Yeah. 154 00:10:50,268 --> 00:10:50,648 Yeah. 155 00:10:51,118 --> 00:10:54,148 And I guess another aspect here is the fatigue. 156 00:10:54,158 --> 00:10:58,208 Like the fatigue might not be a bug, it might be a feature. 157 00:10:58,988 --> 00:11:03,598 And by that, I mean I've been reading a little bit and watching Katy Bowman. 158 00:11:04,168 --> 00:11:06,238 I think she calls herself a biomechanist. 159 00:11:06,328 --> 00:11:10,978 She deals a lot with natural movement and the way that our bodies were designed to move. 160 00:11:10,988 --> 00:11:17,198 And, you know, if we repeatedly move them not right, then we can get chronic pain and whatever. 161 00:11:17,868 --> 00:11:20,568 So I've been looking at it from the aspect of ergonomics. 162 00:11:20,738 --> 00:11:28,908 And one of the things she says, let's say, you're sitting on the floor, it's not very comfortable, especially not after a while. 163 00:11:29,208 --> 00:11:29,398 Right? 164 00:11:29,398 --> 00:11:32,118 It gets uncomfortable, so move. 165 00:11:32,118 --> 00:11:32,388 Tisha: Right. 166 00:11:32,658 --> 00:11:33,108 Erez: Right? 167 00:11:33,348 --> 00:11:39,668 Like that's, that's a feature and people have all these apps and reminders to take a break from the screen and walk away. 168 00:11:39,668 --> 00:11:42,118 Everybody knows it's good to take a break every now and then. 169 00:11:42,235 --> 00:11:49,988 And so if you do it with the right mindset, maybe typing on a firmer switch and feeling that fatigue, if you're mindful of your hands, you're like, "Oh, okay. 170 00:11:49,988 --> 00:11:51,028 It's time to step away." 171 00:11:51,428 --> 00:11:55,538 And you walk away for 10 minutes and do something else that does not involve typing. 172 00:11:56,048 --> 00:12:00,828 Because all too often for me, like the "break" is still in front of the screen. 173 00:12:01,558 --> 00:12:01,958 Tisha: Right. 174 00:12:02,318 --> 00:12:05,798 Erez: Like I sit on one of those kneeling stools and sometimes I stand. 175 00:12:05,798 --> 00:12:08,668 And the way that I switch is when I get uncomfortable. 176 00:12:08,668 --> 00:12:09,388 So I'm like, "Oh, okay. 177 00:12:09,388 --> 00:12:10,128 Time to switch." 178 00:12:10,138 --> 00:12:10,458 Right? 179 00:12:10,898 --> 00:12:21,528 So maybe that can be a similar kind of reminder again, if you do it with the right mindset, if you look at it as a reminder, stop typing, you know, like go do something else, if you can. 180 00:12:21,988 --> 00:12:22,348 Tisha: Right. 181 00:12:22,378 --> 00:12:22,718 Yeah. 182 00:12:22,748 --> 00:12:23,628 That's a good point. 183 00:12:23,728 --> 00:12:36,292 It's you know, obviously if you already know that you have joint or connective tissue issues, then you're not going to want something that you know is going to cause more fatigue. 184 00:12:36,962 --> 00:12:44,752 But, if you don't then something that gives you a little reminder to, you know, okay, stop typing for a few minutes, might not be a bad idea. 185 00:12:45,062 --> 00:12:51,778 I think well, I can't identify with this, but for like athletes, professional or high level athletes. 186 00:12:52,128 --> 00:13:01,318 But also for people who, for say, musicians, or anyone who's doing something where they have to practice a thing or just do a thing for long periods of time. 187 00:13:01,868 --> 00:13:11,738 Even if whatever it is you're doing, you're very good at, the muscles or the parts of your body that you're using are very well toned and stuff, you still need to take a break. 188 00:13:12,388 --> 00:13:12,538 Erez: Yup. 189 00:13:12,608 --> 00:13:17,415 Tisha: And a built-in reminder is maybe not so bad a thing. 190 00:13:17,862 --> 00:13:18,402 Erez: Right. 191 00:13:19,072 --> 00:13:32,592 And yeah, it's interesting that you brought up athletes because I guess another thing that might happen here is as you're using a firmer switch, maybe, anecdotally, maybe your fingers actually get stronger over time and you get a better grip. 192 00:13:32,992 --> 00:13:36,002 And so that fatigue comes later and later. 193 00:13:36,042 --> 00:13:38,512 Like maybe for me, it feels super tiring right now. 194 00:13:38,712 --> 00:13:46,942 But if I switch over and kind of take those breaks over time intuitively as my body feels the need, it would require fewer and fewer breaks. 195 00:13:47,612 --> 00:13:47,772 Maybe. 196 00:13:47,772 --> 00:13:48,112 Tisha: Right. 197 00:13:48,542 --> 00:13:52,652 I would assume so but, kind of like learning to play the piano. 198 00:13:53,012 --> 00:13:53,392 Right? 199 00:13:53,542 --> 00:13:56,312 Your fingers are going to get stronger the more you do it. 200 00:13:56,822 --> 00:13:57,222 Erez: Right. 201 00:13:57,282 --> 00:13:59,792 I mean, the analogy that I go to is running, right? 202 00:13:59,792 --> 00:14:05,652 I started running a couple of years ago and when I just started it was like, run walk, walk, walk, run a little bit, walk, walk, walk. 203 00:14:05,652 --> 00:14:08,982 And now I just, I go in the morning and I just run, right? 204 00:14:08,982 --> 00:14:09,872 'Cause you can just do it. 205 00:14:09,872 --> 00:14:16,012 And it's not, like I'm not less comfortable now than I was before, it's just that my body changed. 206 00:14:16,442 --> 00:14:16,862 Tisha: Right. 207 00:14:16,955 --> 00:14:18,285 Erez: So, okay. 208 00:14:18,285 --> 00:14:28,465 So if we dive into the details, I guess, or maybe before we do, one last question because you mentioned they are similar: Audio, what are your thoughts on how audible they are? 209 00:14:28,632 --> 00:14:35,832 Tisha: They are on the quieter side, I guess, of the sort of range of mechanical switches. 210 00:14:36,532 --> 00:14:39,002 As a linear switch, it's on the quieter side. 211 00:14:39,002 --> 00:14:43,492 It's not silent, like a silenced switch, like the Silent Reds. 212 00:14:44,122 --> 00:14:51,062 But they are quiet, kind of equivalent to like, a Red switch, a Cherry MX Red or a Kailh Box Red. 213 00:14:51,322 --> 00:14:56,392 I think Black switches and Red switches are pretty similar noise level wise. 214 00:14:56,752 --> 00:15:09,822 Erez: Interesting when you look at this switch, but in real life, it makes sense to me that they would actually be quite different because they require such a, or they invite, I should say, such a vastly different use of force, no? 215 00:15:10,362 --> 00:15:10,852 Tisha: Right. 216 00:15:10,942 --> 00:15:17,252 Any of these, some amount, possibly a large amount will depend on how you type on them. 217 00:15:17,642 --> 00:15:23,482 You can type, I guess percussively on any switch and it's going to be louder. 218 00:15:23,702 --> 00:15:31,312 Like, a Kailh Silver switch, when I type on a Kailh Silver switch, it's still pretty loud 'cause I still, kind of pound it. 219 00:15:32,582 --> 00:15:32,962 Erez: Right. 220 00:15:33,002 --> 00:15:36,952 But then like if you have a key that invites you to do that- 221 00:15:37,352 --> 00:15:37,522 Tisha: Right. 222 00:15:37,522 --> 00:15:42,182 ... Erez: that, that gives you that pushback, I wonder if it ends up being louder. 223 00:15:42,632 --> 00:15:44,382 But again, it's a typing style thing, right? 224 00:15:44,382 --> 00:15:45,972 We can't say, "Oh, this switch is louder." 225 00:15:45,972 --> 00:15:47,732 It's just, well, it ends up being louder. 226 00:15:47,962 --> 00:15:48,342 Tisha: Right. 227 00:15:48,372 --> 00:15:49,012 It could be. 228 00:15:49,062 --> 00:15:50,932 That is something you may want to think about. 229 00:15:50,942 --> 00:16:00,482 Like, if I buy these Black switches, am I doing it with the expectation that I'm going to type on them pretty forcefully? 230 00:16:00,672 --> 00:16:02,490 In that case they're probably going to be a little louder. 231 00:16:02,950 --> 00:16:19,062 Or you could be thinking, I'm not that aggressive a typist, but I like that kind of springy recoil feeling that a firmer switch gives ... you're probably not going to reach the heights of loudness as someone who, who types really heavily. 232 00:16:19,652 --> 00:16:20,022 Erez: Right. 233 00:16:20,952 --> 00:16:21,732 That makes sense. 234 00:16:22,392 --> 00:16:27,992 I actually have an ErgoDox EZ here with Cherry MX Black switches. 235 00:16:28,302 --> 00:16:29,762 I can play it for you if you'd like. 236 00:16:30,052 --> 00:16:30,612 Tisha: Sure, yeah. 237 00:16:30,682 --> 00:16:30,712 Erez: Okay. 238 00:16:31,822 --> 00:16:33,312 So here's me typing softly. 239 00:16:37,322 --> 00:16:40,392 Right just nice and soft. 240 00:16:40,392 --> 00:16:44,232 I, I like that it's very smooth and it sounds kind of refined. 241 00:16:45,692 --> 00:16:46,747 I don't know, I don't know how to call it. 242 00:16:46,747 --> 00:16:49,362 It sounds like I'm typing something important and smart. 243 00:16:51,382 --> 00:17:01,492 And now I'm just going to pound it, and that's soft again and-. 244 00:17:01,592 --> 00:17:05,042 Tisha: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 245 00:17:05,672 --> 00:17:11,722 Erez: There is a difference, just like holding the keyboard, I feel like there is a difference, but it's not a tremendous difference. 246 00:17:12,602 --> 00:17:14,742 I can see why you say they're quiet. 247 00:17:14,772 --> 00:17:21,622 Even when I'm pounding the switches, they seem pretty sedate, pretty laid back. 248 00:17:22,089 --> 00:17:22,499 Tisha: Right. 249 00:17:22,589 --> 00:17:30,066 If you did that same test with a tactile switch, there's just, there's going to be more, more sound. 250 00:17:31,016 --> 00:17:32,176 Erez: Yeah, that makes sense to me. 251 00:17:32,466 --> 00:17:32,786 Tisha: Yeah. 252 00:17:32,929 --> 00:17:33,319 Erez: Cool. 253 00:17:34,289 --> 00:17:43,779 So then if we want to dive into particulars here, even though they're similar, MX Black versus Kailh Box Black, do we want to talk about the differences here or? 254 00:17:44,049 --> 00:17:44,529 Tisha: Sure. 255 00:17:44,569 --> 00:17:52,759 I mean, the biggest difference, the most obvious difference is that the Cherry MX Black is not RGB compatible. 256 00:17:53,029 --> 00:18:03,909 So, not available for the Moonlander or the ErgoDox EZ Glow or Planck EZ Glow because it blocks the backlighting. 257 00:18:04,589 --> 00:18:09,949 Kailh Box Black is RGB compatible, so works with backlighting. 258 00:18:10,469 --> 00:18:11,539 Erez: And has a box. 259 00:18:11,819 --> 00:18:13,249 Tisha: And has the box stem, right? 260 00:18:13,309 --> 00:18:13,529 Erez: Yup. 261 00:18:13,809 --> 00:18:14,109 Tisha: Yup. 262 00:18:14,739 --> 00:18:18,549 That is by far and away, to me, the biggest difference. 263 00:18:18,579 --> 00:18:20,459 Otherwise they feel very similar. 264 00:18:20,459 --> 00:18:23,019 They're both quite smooth feeling. 265 00:18:23,489 --> 00:18:25,299 They feel springy to me, you know. 266 00:18:25,299 --> 00:18:28,559 You could feel like, oh, I'm typing on something that has a spring inside. 267 00:18:29,499 --> 00:18:30,329 It's kind of bouncy. 268 00:18:30,379 --> 00:18:32,269 You press it down and it bounces back. 269 00:18:33,209 --> 00:18:33,559 Erez: Right. 270 00:18:34,009 --> 00:18:41,139 One of my concerns with springy switches like that is, you know, springy and pingy feel close. 271 00:18:41,179 --> 00:18:46,809 I mean, do we ever hear from people saying, "Oh, these switches ping when you let go?" 272 00:18:46,819 --> 00:18:50,682 Tisha: You know, not, I would say we don't hear that about the Black switches. 273 00:18:50,722 --> 00:18:56,722 I think that it's more common for tactile switches to be pingy. 274 00:18:57,272 --> 00:18:59,652 Erez: Oh, maybe it's something to do with a bump, like- 275 00:18:59,652 --> 00:19:00,122 Tisha: Right. 276 00:19:00,142 --> 00:19:03,652 ... Erez: going past the bump on the, on the upstroke or something, I don't know. 277 00:19:04,172 --> 00:19:04,582 Tisha: Right. 278 00:19:04,582 --> 00:19:10,672 I mean, I don't know either, but yeah, maybe because I do think that, and this is just completely anecdotal. 279 00:19:11,182 --> 00:19:18,518 I think it's also a factor that tactile switches are quite popular. 280 00:19:19,048 --> 00:19:26,978 Not that linear aren't, but I feel like more of our customers probably have tactile switches than linear. 281 00:19:27,508 --> 00:19:32,188 Erez: So we just hear, hear more good and bad about them just 'cause more people use them. 282 00:19:32,368 --> 00:19:32,918 Tisha: Right. 283 00:19:33,148 --> 00:19:37,108 So like, I don't have "data"- 284 00:19:37,128 --> 00:19:38,208 Erez: Yeah, makes sense 285 00:19:38,598 --> 00:19:39,138 ... Tisha: about it. 286 00:19:39,428 --> 00:19:49,306 But just in my own experience, just playing around with switches, Black switches don't seem inclined to pinginess. 287 00:19:50,986 --> 00:19:56,606 Erez: Like, okay, what I'm doing right now is I'm pressing it and then I'm sliding my finger off, which is really the way to make it ping, I think. 288 00:19:56,606 --> 00:19:56,756 Right? 289 00:19:56,896 --> 00:19:57,356 Tisha: Right, yeah. 290 00:19:57,356 --> 00:20:00,946 Erez: Like, kind of on the side, you can like press it on the side and then slide the finger off. 291 00:20:03,806 --> 00:20:07,096 Nope, not even on the long keys. 292 00:20:08,206 --> 00:20:11,116 Yeah, no, not, not pingy at all, actually. 293 00:20:11,236 --> 00:20:12,676 Wow, that's cool, that's a plus. 294 00:20:14,028 --> 00:20:14,568 Tisha: Yeah. 295 00:20:14,635 --> 00:20:15,185 I don't know why. 296 00:20:15,285 --> 00:20:18,445 I don't really know why that's different, but yeah, it seems to be different. 297 00:20:19,105 --> 00:20:22,985 So yeah, you've got the springiness, this kind of springy feeling. 298 00:20:23,155 --> 00:20:35,317 When it comes down to really subtle differences, the Kailh Box Black may feel just the tiniest bit smoother and super tiny bit firmer than Cherry MX Black. 299 00:20:35,337 --> 00:20:39,157 But both of these differences are really small. 300 00:20:39,157 --> 00:20:45,337 Like I have to have the two switches comparing side by side and really carefully. 301 00:20:45,337 --> 00:20:55,367 Like these are not, natural typing tests, this is a very artificial, you know, press, press, press, press, press, press, test. 302 00:20:56,077 --> 00:20:56,757 Erez: Right, right. 303 00:20:56,937 --> 00:21:02,307 Tisha: So there are differences obviously because they're not the same switch, but the differences are very small. 304 00:21:03,917 --> 00:21:11,447 Erez: Especially when it comes to the firmness, I guess something to keep in mind is that switches do get broken in just like shoes, right? 305 00:21:11,447 --> 00:21:19,557 Like when you take a switch out of the box and it's firm, six months in, it will feel different after you've typed millions of words on it, right? 306 00:21:19,837 --> 00:21:20,207 Tisha: Right. 307 00:21:20,217 --> 00:21:21,087 Yeah, totally. 308 00:21:21,147 --> 00:21:24,367 May sound a bit different too 'cause the springs get some wear on them. 309 00:21:24,577 --> 00:21:24,827 Yeah. 310 00:21:25,157 --> 00:21:25,627 Erez: Awesome. 311 00:21:25,754 --> 00:21:27,584 Anything else you want to say about these switches? 312 00:21:27,904 --> 00:21:29,244 Tisha: No, I don't think so. 313 00:21:29,544 --> 00:21:30,654 It's a nice switch. 314 00:21:30,654 --> 00:21:39,814 If I were a linear switch user, it's something that I would probably gravitate toward, but, it's tactile for me all the way. 315 00:21:40,564 --> 00:21:40,604 Erez: [laughs]. 316 00:21:41,544 --> 00:21:42,114 I hear. 317 00:21:42,174 --> 00:21:42,774 I hear. 318 00:21:43,434 --> 00:21:43,804 Awesome. 319 00:21:43,824 --> 00:21:44,734 Well, thank you so much. 320 00:21:44,804 --> 00:21:45,564 Tisha: Sure, thank you. 321 00:21:45,594 --> 00:21:46,384 Erez: See you the next one. 322 00:21:46,484 --> 00:21:46,884 Tisha: Yeah. 323 00:21:46,974 --> 00:21:47,324 Bye-bye. 324 00:21:47,594 --> 00:21:47,944 Erez: Bye.